StandardError Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Hi everyone, Maybe this is the wrong thread to ask in, but for a new USPSA shooter, would it be more beneficial to start in production or carry optics? Specifically, I'm wondering whether there is an asymmetry in crossover between learning to shoot on irons vs. a dot. I've shot lots of irons (former bullseye (only used irons) and olympic pistol shooter), but have no experience with a dot. Would learning a dot lead to more improvements in irons than learning in irons lead to shooting w/ a dot? The specific skill areas I know I need the most work in are: 1) Calling shots 2) Shooting while moving (and calling shots while doing so) 3) Indexing What differences would a carry optic versus irons make in learning these skills? Are there other core skills that are dramatically impacted by irons vs dots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Sounds like Limited might be a better place to start. No mag restrictions, no optics and still relatively competitive with a Production style gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardError Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, mreed911 said: Sounds like Limited might be a better place to start. No mag restrictions, no optics and still relatively competitive with a Production style gun. I don't mind the mag restrictions, since I (til recently) was in a 10 round state. And carry optics has the new 140mm regs. It really comes down to which sight style to go with that I'm most unsure about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Understood. Your background suggests you're more comfortable with irons and that's what you're looking to work on. That said, I really enjoy Carry Optics, and if I'm shooting minor it's my preferred division for now. Otherwise I'm a single stack major guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsand Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Hi everyone, Maybe this is the wrong thread to ask in, but for a new USPSA shooter, would it be more beneficial to start in production or carry optics? Specifically, I'm wondering whether there is an asymmetry in crossover between learning to shoot on irons vs. a dot. I've shot lots of irons (former bullseye (only used irons) and olympic pistol shooter), but have no experience with a dot. Would learning a dot lead to more improvements in irons than learning in irons lead to shooting w/ a dot? The specific skill areas I know I need the most work in are: 1) Calling shots 2) Shooting while moving (and calling shots while doing so) 3) Indexing What differences would a carry optic versus irons make in learning these skills? Are there other core skills that are dramatically impacted by irons vs dots?For 1&2, optic makes it much easier to do. You actually see what your hitting at, rather than top of the sight. #3 I found it much easier to index iron sights than a dot. Dot is much harder to pick up, but when you get enough muscle memory it's easy. I just look for my front sight then tilt down. Those are my opinions, I've only been shooting co for two uspsa matches and 6 total uspsa matches. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardError Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 When you go back to irons, do you find that the training w/ the dot helps for 1 and 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsand Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I actually have not shot irons since switching. My other pistols are all sub compact s so shooting them is completely different than my shadow.Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardError Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 For Carry Optics, if the weight limit is 35 oz, does that mean that if you have a gun that is under that, you can add additional weights (say in the magazine) in order to increase the weight up to the legal limit? Or am I just reading this incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 That would be correct according to my reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbob21 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Didn't they raise the weight limit to 45oz? Or something more than 35... some of the steel production guns are being setup to run now... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsand Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 For Carry Optics, if the weight limit is 35 oz, does that mean that if you have a gun that is under that, you can add additional weights (say in the magazine) in order to increase the weight up to the legal limit? Or am I just reading this incorrectly. Pretty sure the weight limit has increased to 45 oz including magazine. https://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20160123.pdfSent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardError Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, bigbob21 said: Didn't they raise the weight limit to 45oz? Or something more than 35... some of the steel production guns are being setup to run now... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk My impression was that at the Jan 2017 review, Matt Hopkins suggested an increase, but that it was not approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsand Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 My impression was that at the Jan 2017 review, Matt Hopkins suggested an increase, but that it was not approved.See my post above. Jan 2016 weight increased to 45 oz. They tried to remove weight limit but it didn't pass. https://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20160123.pdf Jan 2017 was when magazine capacity was removed and 140mm length introduced. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLChris Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) I added as much weight as possible to my Glock 17 CO gun. I epoxied lead shot into the grip void and am using a tungsten guide rod. Still not like a steel gun, but the best I can do. Here's my thinking on CO. My carry gun has an RMR (G19), therefore I want my competition rig to also have a red dot. I use a DeltaPoint on my CO gun. If you use irons on your carry gun(s), consider Production or Limited. If you use an optic, you get to choose between Open and CO. Not that USPSA is self defense training or anything, but most of my reps are gotten through competition. I may as well shoot something a little similar to my carry rig...a little. Edited March 23, 2017 by CHLChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWhit Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 From my experience, it takes about 6 good months of training to become proficient with the dot if no previous dot experience. Since you are new to the sport, it will take at least this long to become relatively competitive in any division, so not an issue. I also find it easier to go back to irons from a dot. I think a dot (especially a 3 MOA) provides more feedback on trigger control and sight alignment during dry and live fire practice, which helps improve overall marksmanship. Additionally, If you are just starting USPSA, CO will typically only require one mag change per stage, making stage breakdowns a little easier. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 considering moving to CO, can I use a 2011 pistol with no ported barrel, no magwell, in 9mm in the CO divison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardError Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, Ozy said: considering moving to CO, can I use a 2011 pistol with no ported barrel, no magwell, in 9mm in the CO divison? No dice. Guns in the CO division need to be guns on the prod list with approved modifications. By extension, that means no 2011s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozy Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 ahahhhhh, too bad... maybe we should propose a new division- open light? or limited optics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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