We NEED a GOOD short range RIFLE TARGET...

[Ranger6]

This target seems to work. Cut up a standard 2"x4" 8-foot board into blocks. Size them as 4"x4" (actually ~ 3.75"x3.75"). You end up with 24-25 wooden blocks for targets from each board. Set them up on top of a standard 2"x4" or 1"x2" post. Shoot them off for score. If it is windy, place a piece of on the backside to secure them in place. The tape acts like a hinge allowing the block to be knocked off but easily placed back on top of the post. Most blocks will take several hits before breaking apart. (5.56mm seems to pass right through.) Painting the blocks seems to make them last longer.

The cost per block is minimal. A few 2"x4"s provides a lot of targets. At 50-100 yards these can be a challenge.

Advantages: Easy to make, easy to replace, low cost per target, provides a challenge.

Disadvantages: Will break apart after a few hits, can be blown off on windy days, can fall off post if post is struck by bullet. (Use of tape can help to keep targets in place before taking a direct hit.)

Ranger6

[ArmdCtzn]

This target seems to work. Cut up a standard 2"x4" 8-foot board into blocks. Size them as 4"x4" (actually ~ 3.75"x3.75"). You end up with 24-25 wooden blocks for targets from each board. Set them up on top of a standard 2"x4" or 1"x2" post. Shoot them off for score. If it is windy, place a piece of on the backside to secure them in place. The tape acts like a hinge allowing the block to be knocked off but easily placed back on top of the post. Most blocks will take several hits before breaking apart. (5.56mm seems to pass right through.) Painting the blocks seems to make them last longer.

The cost per block is minimal. A few 2"x4"s provides a lot of targets. At 50-100 yards these can be a challenge.

Advantages: Easy to make, easy to replace, low cost per target, provides a challenge.

Disadvantages: Will break apart after a few hits, can be blown off on windy days, can fall off post if post is struck by bullet. (Use of tape can help to keep targets in place before taking a direct hit.)

Ranger6

I like this idea. I'm going to give it a try. Maybe some duct tape on the back will keep them in place until actually hit well.

I'd like to set one on a 2x4 stand and shoot the stand to see if the target falls off.

[gino_aki]

This target seems to work. Cut up a standard 2"x4" 8-foot board into blocks. Size them as 4"x4" (actually ~ 3.75"x3.75"). You end up with 24-25 wooden blocks for targets from each board. Set them up on top of a standard 2"x4" or 1"x2" post. Shoot them off for score. If it is windy, place a piece of on the backside to secure them in place. The tape acts like a hinge allowing the block to be knocked off but easily placed back on top of the post. Most blocks will take several hits before breaking apart. (5.56mm seems to pass right through.) Painting the blocks seems to make them last longer.

The cost per block is minimal. A few 2"x4"s provides a lot of targets. At 50-100 yards these can be a challenge.

Advantages: Easy to make, easy to replace, low cost per target, provides a challenge.

Disadvantages: Will break apart after a few hits, can be blown off on windy days, can fall off post if post is struck by bullet. (Use of tape can help to keep targets in place before taking a direct hit.)

Ranger6

I like this idea. I'm going to give it a try. Maybe some duct tape on the back will keep them in place until actually hit well.

I'd like to set one on a 2x4 stand and shoot the stand to see if the target falls off.

If you take one of the "targets" and screw it face down to the top of the 2X4 post (thereby making a pedestal for the actual target to sit on) you could turn the 2X4 post edgewise towards the shooter to make it less prone to hits...could also make the pedestals out of 1/2" plywood squares for the same reason. Maybe even use 1X3 or 1X4 for the posts if they're straight enough.

[Les Snyder]

bowling pins?...

[ArmdCtzn]

I made this one up today. I haven't had a chance to try it yet. I'm curious to see what hits to the upright

will do to the target, if it will fall off. The base that the target is sitting on is 4x4, the target is 3 1/2 square.

[George]

More usage data on the short range steel clay backer target we use at the Bay Area Rifle Championship.

We used ten of these targets at the 2011 BARC, six at 37 yards and four at 42 yards. We had 96 competitors activate these targets almost 1000 total times and had not one failure to properly indicate hit and no re-shoots were needed due to range equipment failure.

The new hinged 2x4 support modification worked like a charm and large caliber rifles did not take the top off the stand no matter how many hits splintered the wood below the steel backer. We built 20 hinged 2x4 supports and changed them out as needed (whenever the splintering had removed enough wood under the backer to warrant it).

Any hit square on the backer face consistently vaporized the clay and tipped the target over backwards with authority. Edge hits on the clay, or on the edge of the backer itself did not always tip the hinged 2x4 over backwards but the clay vaporized or shattered every single time. Our rule for score is "clay must indicate hit to score" and clay inspection was never needed. We only issue a miss penalty if the clays are still hanging intact at the end of a competitor run.

Hits to the 2x4 under the steel backer never once dislodged a clay. High velocity rifle rounds go through the wood like it's Kleenex at short range. You could see wood splinters fly when competitors put hits through the 2x4's but the clay and backer never moved.

I am absolutely comfortable using these targets at ranges as close as 35 yards to the competitor. No splatter comes back uprange from the steel backer due to the upward angle on the backer face. NOTE: The backers we use are made of AR-400 steel, nothing softer would suffice!

Rubber bands are not needed to hold the clays in place as the backward angle on the backer face holds them perfectly in place. Target reset is so fast it isn't even funny and stage reset with these targets is as simple as pie :-)

IMHO, this target is a 100% winner for precision short range rifle use. They are challenging enough to provide even top level competitors a good challenge in fast engagement and provide a very challenging target for everyone else. Visual hit indication from uprange is dramatic to say the least, RO's really like them for ease of hit scoring.

The competitors raved about how much fun these were to shoot. I had lots of shooters ask about getting some for use at their home ranges.

As far as longevity of the backer itself, we never had to change a single steel backer during the course of the match. They received almost 100 hits apece, mostly Hi-V .223 and they are mostly still good to go for more use.

To hold the 2x4 upright we use the GT Targets bases. The hinged 2x4 is 30" high. We cut it at 10" and the shorter end of the hinged 2x4 goes down in the stand, the steel backer clamps on the 20" top section.

Here are some images of the clay backers and hinged stands in detail and in use.

Closeup of backer face after extensive use.

Closeup of the hinged 2x4

Closeup of the steel backer clamped on the hinged 2x4

Closeup of splintered wood. This level of wood damage was not a problem in usage.

Frangible steel target in actual usage

[George]

Here is a video from the 2011 BARC following Keith Garcia (Match Winner). The 2nd stage in the video shows the stage where we had six of the steel clay backer targets in use at 37 yards distance.

[A well Earled machine]

What I have done is put a drywall screw into an old golf ball – I find lots of them when I’m looking for my ball. Then I tie 2’-3’ of fishing line on the screw and onto the end of a 4’ piece of rebar. I drive the rebar into the berm at a 45 deg. angle at anywhere between 25 – 75 yards. It is a pretty challenging target, doesn’t cost hardly anything and will soak up quite a few rounds. Just grazing it will really make it dance too. Occasionally it will get hit solidly enough to break the string so make up a bunch.

There ya go,

Earl

[timawa]

Try plaster of paris molded into a plate.

[ArmdCtzn]

I think we have a winner with the wood target. I finally had a chance to take it to the range and it worked

perfectly. Shots to the base had no effect on the target, whether hitting the upright or the actual base that

the target sits on. Hits to the target knocked it off every time. Very simple and inexpensive.

[rz317]

I think we have a winner with the wood target. I finally had a chance to take it to the range and it worked

perfectly. Shots to the base had no effect on the target, whether hitting the upright or the actual base that

the target sits on. Hits to the target knocked it off every time. Very simple and inexpensive.

That looks promising! What would happen when somebody hits the upright with a 9mm carbine, though?

Edited August 5, 2011 by rz317

[ArmdCtzn]

That looks promising! What would happen when somebody hits the upright with a 9mm carbine, though?

Good question. The R&D department will be checking that out, and I'll report back.

[ericm]

Update on using clay birds: Just got back from RM3G where you engaged 2 clay birds @ 50 yds with rifle. The birds were placed on wood lath. My 2 broke apart fairly well with several shots (can't tell if you "burn a hole" under time), but I observed other shooters "burn a hole" and continue to shoot until major breakage.

Not a slam on RM3G at all, since we HAVE to use cheap, replaceable targets for matches. I even heard from Denise that they tried using the oldest, most brittle clay birds on that stage.

The wood targets above seem to work well in the video clip. Can you test them in some windy conditions to see how well they stay put?

Plaster of paris poured into the back of a clay might increase the effect of a hit, but would add cost and target prep time (kind of like reloading good match ammo) to the point of diminishing return.

Let's keep thinking and testing; we can only improve the sport if we are successful.

Remember: Low cost, ease of manufacture, availability and safety in close range use.

[ericm]

...also, I meant to comment on the targets Geoff uses above.

I like the very visual effect of the splattering clay on the steel face, but really with the hinged 2X4 wood holder and the round steel face you just have a pretty fair falling "popper" that really doesn't need the clay bird to indicate the hit. Painted black, those targets would be a good reactive, re-setable STEEL target with the aformentioned safety and longevity drawbacks of close range rifle use.

ericm

[ArmdCtzn]

I tested my wood target with a 9mm. Hits to the target are fine. The target block won't last as long because the holes are bigger, but it can take multiple hits before needing replaced. However, hits to the upright knock the target right off. This is with the target block just sitting on the base as in my video above.

So, I might try some duct tape on the target block to see if I can get enough hold to keep it from just falling off when a 9mm hits the upright, but still easily fall off when a direct hit is scored.

[George]

...also, I meant to comment on the targets Geoff uses above.

I like the very visual effect of the splattering clay on the steel face, but really with the hinged 2X4 wood holder and the round steel face you just have a pretty fair falling "popper" that really doesn't need the clay bird to indicate the hit. Painted black, those targets would be a good reactive, re-setable STEEL target with the aformentioned safety and longevity drawbacks of close range rifle use.

ericm

The clay is required to properly indicate a hit (and therefore a score) because edge hits on the steel backer do not always take the hinged 2x4 over backwards. The rule for score is "frangible must indicate hit to score". This is the final level of indication that gives us a 100% hit determination reliability rating for this target in match usage. The bright orange clay being there and then not being there is the absolute best indication of a hit you can have (or conversely, indication of a miss if the clay is still hanging there).

The hinged 2x4 is not there to make the target a falling steel type, it is there to eliminate damage large caliber rifles were doing to the wood when we used to use rigid 2x4 supports. A .308 would move the target stand base and also take the top of the 2x4 off if there was any level of wood damage below the wood backer when a rigid 2x4 was used. The fall-over-mode is just icing on the cake when a solid hit to the backer is made, but it is not the indication of score, the frangible breaking is the indication of score.

[jwfuhrman]

What about the obvious safety for that close of rifle shot on steel? Any problems with anything coming back at the shooter?

[George]

What about the obvious safety for that close of rifle shot on steel? Any problems with anything coming back at the shooter?

Here is the part of my previous post about that in reference to the custom made steel clay-backer targets we are using.

"I am absolutely comfortable using these targets at ranges as close as 35 yards to the competitor. No splatter comes back uprange from the steel backer due to the upward angle on the backer face. NOTE: The backers we use are made of AR-400 steel, nothing softer would suffice!"

[ericm]

(big sigh).....OK, George, we get it, you like your clay bird on steel target system, they work well for you, they are accepted at your range, etc., etc., sheesh.

For those users groups and/or matches that cannot use steel inside of 50 yards for safety reasons (real or imagined) or cost or target life (relates to cost), we still are on a quest: please see the original post, and THANKS to everyone who is looking into this.

Remember: cheap, easy to use (re-set, set-up, etc.), absolutely positive first round hit indication, and until that hit, remain in place in reasonable weather conditions.

ericm

[Benelli Chick]

Remember: cheap, easy to use (re-set, set-up, etc.), absolutely positive first round hit indication, and until that hit, remain in place in reasonable weather conditions.

ericm

Don't ask much, do you!

[CraigS.]

We have used the top of bowling pins cut off in a chop saw with no

problems.

The way we set them up was on a horizontal 4X4 between two stands to simulate a plate rack

at 25 yds. they held up really well and the best part they are FREE !!!

[ericm]

Shot 3 water bottles today, not an exhaustive test, just a "hey, looky at these bottles here at the range" kind of test.

Range 15 yards, bottles full but not to top (like you would buy them), caps on, .308 Win 150 gr FMJ (Mil Ball), 18" bbl, about 2600 fps.

Bottles were placed on a "stump" of telephone pole 10-12" dia X 24" long.

First shot was low into telephone pole to see if this would jar off the bottle. Bottle stayed put. 2nd shot was an edge hit on bottle (Sobe Life 20 oz. water bottle, fairly rigid plastic) to see effect. Bottle spun off post, landing about a foot away. Not a very exciting effect, and bottle did not "explode", but hit was apparent.

2nd and 3rd bottles (kirkland 16 oz. thin plastic water bottle) were shot to center and effect was similar to SOBE bottle, not exciting but visible.

None of the bottles "exploded due to the incredible hydrostatic shock of the 7.62 NATO round"

If a range had a thousand of these empty water bottles (like every match I've been to) and a water source, you might be able to use them as short range rifle targets with a little experimenting.

The quest continues.

ericm

[George]

(big sigh).....OK, George, we get it, you like your clay bird on steel target system, they work well for you, they are accepted at your range, etc., etc., sheesh.

Tellya' what, how about if I send you one of our steel clay backers gratis and you can try it for yourself. PM me your shipping address and I will get one out to you ASAP. Keep it, beat the crap outa' it and then let me know what you think.

[ArmdCtzn]

(big sigh).....OK, George, we get it, you like your clay bird on steel target system, they work well for you, they are accepted at your range, etc., etc., sheesh.

Tellya' what, how about if I send you one of our steel clay backers gratis and you can try it for yourself. PM me your shipping address and I will get one out to you ASAP. Keep it, beat the crap outa' it and then let me know what you think.

That's a very generous offer for you to make him.

I can't speak for everyone, but in my particular situation that target wouldn't work because:

1. Cost - that target is far too expensive for my range

2. Ricochets - we could never use a target that sends rifle rounds up and over the berm

3. Safety - I'm not shooting at steel with a rifle up close. I have two nice scars to

show you why.

[ericm]

George: thanks for the offer, however Armdctzn speaks for me as well.

He sucinctly summed up the concerns with STEEL TARGETS UNDER 50 YARDS.

For example, my water bottle test above involved no steel, the wood block tests above involved no steel, clay birds on lath (while lacking) involve no steel, do-all targets set on plastic cones involve no steel, etc.

I don't know how else to explain this concept to you.

ericm