best comp out there

[fritzthemoose]

hi, in your opinion whats the best comp available for a 1911/2011 system at the moment.

I am in the process of planning a new open gun and it will most likely be a 2011 system as I do have an open Glock already and I am not sure about the long stick mags for the Tangfolio and the fact that the Tangfolio is still not 100% in 9 Major

So I am thinking about an hybrid barrel with comp wether for a STI or SVI base system

[G-ManBart]

Hannes,

I don't think there's really a "best". It will depend on what ammo you're planning on running (bullet weight and powder type), slide weight, and a couple of other things. I'd talk with whoever is going to build the gun and go with their opinion. When I had my newest gun built I told Derek the basic style setup I wanted and he recommended a particular comp style (one of his) that isn't what he uses the most, but would be the best fit for the overall system...works really well. R,

[fritzthemoose]

Hannes,

I don't think there's really a "best". It will depend on what ammo you're planning on running (bullet weight and powder type), slide weight, and a couple of other things. I'd talk with whoever is going to build the gun and go with their opinion. When I had my newest gun built I told Derek the basic style setup I wanted and he recommended a particular comp style (one of his) that isn't what he uses the most, but would be the best fit for the overall system...works really well. R,

Hi Bart,

I will get the parts myself and then just let the final finishing been done by someone. Its more a kind of hobby project as I need one more gun fill the spots on my permit. I cannot file for an extension until all the available spots are full. As I dont really shoot anything else then IPSC I thought to do another open.

It will be in 9 Major using SP2 and 125 grain Ares

At the moment I am getting the basic ideas togehter. Want to buy as many parts as possible in the US due to price but I am still waiting for answers on what parts shops would ship and which ones not. The parts they dont ship I would get here in Europe

[PaulW]

I have shot many of the top named comps and really there is very little difference. Also I would caution on using a hybrid and 9mm major. It can be done but it makes life a little harder.

[matt2ace]

I have shot many of the top named comps and really there is very little difference. Also I would caution on using a hybrid and 9mm major. It can be done but it makes life a little harder.

+1 Hybrid comps in 9 major require more powder to make major PF due to additional gas venting from the hybrid ports. This pushes the limits of case volume when reloading. I have seen 9mm guns with 2 hybrid ports require 0.5gr more Silhouette to make major vs a similar gun with a pretty typical 5 port (3up, 2 side) 9 major comp.

Edited January 18, 2010 by matt2ace

[Aloha Robert]

I agree with all and G-ManBart summed it up the best, Consult with your gunsmith.

That being said I have a horse in this race which we think is the best combination of performance and value.

We call the RipperComp tried and true because it has been refined over a decade and half. Naturally we think it is the best.

I know there is controversy about hybrids, having been there with several myself, but IMHO with the 165 pf, any holes in the barrel cause more problems than they are worth. And why bother? You can get an absolutely flat soft shooting gun without holes. However I recognize the fun factor and it is kind of cool to have a blasty gun, sometimes.

[CocoBolo]

I asked the same question and really didn't get but two actual recommendations Brazos and Bedell. So I went shopping. One top end I have had a Red Snapper fishing weight on it and it shot snappier than my limited gun. So the hunt became not only to find a good comp but find one that was relatively light, actually I bought 3 one for each of my guns/top ends. None of the guns have the dreaded poppel holes. Slide weight is @10 oz on all 3, 2 are 38SC one 9 mm Major.

Comp 1- Brazos Thunder Comp (Cone) 3 oz

Comp 2- EGW 7 Port - Cone 4.5 oz

Comp 3- Bedell Titanium - Bull 2.2 oz

Other candidates -

Gans 3 & 4 port 5.7 oz to 6.2 oz

Dawson 4 port - but its been discontinued. unknown weight

Millenium Customs comp unknown weight but available in Titanium.

EGW Jim Hand - 5.7 oz

My smith will be done fitting them next week and I will be testing them to see which of the 3 may be the most effective.

One was borne of necessity it was lose in the slide, the other two are elective surgery but were old 175pf fishing weights.

[Sean Gaines]

I asked the same question and really didn't get but two actual recommendations Brazos and Bedell. So I went shopping. One top end I have had a Red Snapper fishing weight on it and it shot snappier than my limited gun. So the hunt became not only to find a good comp but find one that was relatively light, actually I bought 3 one for each of my guns/top ends. None of the guns have the dreaded poppel holes. Slide weight is @10 oz on all 3, 2 are 38SC one 9 mm Major.

Comp 1- Brazos Thunder Comp (Cone) 3 oz

Comp 2- EGW 7 Port - Cone 4.5 oz

Comp 3- Bedell Titanium - Bull 2.2 oz

Other candidates -

Gans 3 & 4 port 5.7 oz to 6.2 oz

Dawson 4 port - but its been discontinued. unknown weight

Millenium Customs comp unknown weight but available in Titanium.

EGW Jim Hand - 5.7 oz

My smith will be done fitting them next week and I will be testing them to see which of the 3 may be the most effective.

One was borne of necessity it was lose in the slide, the other two are elective surgery but were old 175pf fishing weights.

is he going to fit these comps onto your el presidente gun? I would like to know how those comps mentioned above fair to the one you have now on your gun.

[CocoBolo]

The El Presidente is getting the cone Brazos Comp on the Briley Barrel. I will let you know how it turns out.

[usmc1974]

hi, in your opinion whats the best comp available for a 1911/2011 system at the moment.

I am in the process of planning a new open gun and it will most likely be a 2011 system as I do have an open Glock already and I am not sure about the long stick mags for the Tangfolio and the fact that the Tangfolio is still not 100% in 9 Major

So I am thinking about an hybrid barrel with comp wether for a STI or SVI base system

unemployment, then you can work on it as much as you want.

[calishootr]

go out and try several people's comp'd guns and see for yourself which comp set-up works for you, because we are all not cut from the same mold and bult the same way, there is 100's of different comps out there to fit each individual AND their particular shooting style....Me??? I run an old Limcat turbo comp that makes 2 feet of flame outthe top w/ VV powders...some opt not to do it that way...my preference...on hybrids...been there done that, and was a stone cold dog tryin to make major w/ an inch an a half of actual barrel before the holes start to vent it off...

[fritzthemoose]

go out and try several people's comp'd guns and see for yourself which comp set-up works for you, because we are all not cut from the same mold and bult the same way, there is 100's of different comps out there to fit each individual AND their particular shooting style....Me??? I run an old Limcat turbo comp that makes 2 feet of flame outthe top w/ VV powders...some opt not to do it that way...my preference...on hybrids...been there done that, and was a stone cold dog tryin to make major w/ an inch an a half of actual barrel before the holes start to vent it off...

I am undesided on the barrel confirguration yet. I would like to have hybrid but not sure on a long or short barrel and how many holes. Would prefer a short light slide but I am a little bid concerned about Major although we make Major with 160 here. Currently I tend to a 4,15 or 4,5 barrel with at least 2 hybrid holes

[XRe]

There's no simple answer. The comp is part of a system - that system includes all kinds of stuff... The barrel (inc. barrel length) , any ports in the barrel (inc. size and position), the weight of the slide, shape of the FP stop, weight of the mainspring, weight of the recoil spring, type of frame and grip, powder charge (weight and type of powder), bullet weight, etc... Any of those things can have an effect on how you perceive recoil in the gun (be it degree of flatness, how hard it hits you in the palm, how much noise/concussion it makes, etc).

Some comps do work better than others - and some will tend to be more stable in recoil than others (ie, recoil path will be more consistent). For some shooters, there will not be a "night and day" kind of difference between two comps... However, comparing those differences really requires keeping everything else about the systems the same - and because we're generally comparing between two different guns, unless those guns are identical in every other way, we're not comparing solely comp to comp. So, what you want to find is a system that works well, and there's all kinds of ways to approach that. The comparison Ron is doing above is by no means an apples to apples type of comparison, and won't tell anyone much about which comp is "better"... just which system Ron likes better at the time.

I highly disagree with Robert above regarding barrel ports. When made properly, they cause no issues - and their purpose is not only to make the gun shoot flatter... And all ports in the barrel are not created equally - throwing a blanket over all of them just self limits the possibilities. Further, is "soft" equal to "best"? What about "flat"? And can you truly have both "soft" and "flat"? I like a soft shooting gun, like anyone else... but when it comes down to results on the timer and on paper, I find that "soft" tends to equal "slow", and I'd much rather have "fast", so I shoot a gun that performs "fast" for me, but isn't the "feel" I'd pick if I didn't evaluate it's performance on the clock first. In the end, due to the mechanics of the gun, and how those actually influence how the dot moves... you simply can't actually have "flat" and "soft" at the same time. Those that claim to will invariably only have one or some balance between the two, but not both.

[fritzthemoose]

There's no simple answer. The comp is part of a system - that system includes all kinds of stuff... The barrel (inc. barrel length) , any ports in the barrel (inc. size and position), the weight of the slide, shape of the FP stop, weight of the mainspring, weight of the recoil spring, type of frame and grip, powder charge (weight and type of powder), bullet weight, etc... Any of those things can have an effect on how you perceive recoil in the gun (be it degree of flatness, how hard it hits you in the palm, how much noise/concussion it makes, etc).

Some comps do work better than others - and some will tend to be more stable in recoil than others (ie, recoil path will be more consistent). For some shooters, there will not be a "night and day" kind of difference between two comps... However, comparing those differences really requires keeping everything else about the systems the same - and because we're generally comparing between two different guns, unless those guns are identical in every other way, we're not comparing solely comp to comp. So, what you want to find is a system that works well, and there's all kinds of ways to approach that. The comparison Ron is doing above is by no means an apples to apples type of comparison, and won't tell anyone much about which comp is "better"... just which system Ron likes better at the time.

I highly disagree with Robert above regarding barrel ports. When made properly, they cause no issues - and their purpose is not only to make the gun shoot flatter... And all ports in the barrel are not created equally - throwing a blanket over all of them just self limits the possibilities. Further, is "soft" equal to "best"? What about "flat"? And can you truly have both "soft" and "flat"? I like a soft shooting gun, like anyone else... but when it comes down to results on the timer and on paper, I find that "soft" tends to equal "slow", and I'd much rather have "fast", so I shoot a gun that performs "fast" for me, but isn't the "feel" I'd pick if I didn't evaluate it's performance on the clock first. In the end, due to the mechanics of the gun, and how those actually influence how the dot moves... you simply can't actually have "flat" and "soft" at the same time. Those that claim to will invariably only have one or some balance between the two, but not both.

I was undecided for quite some time on the platform. Currently I am using an open Glock right now which I love to shoot. Its very flat and stable and I am quite happy with it. Also dont think that I will improve a lot in the standings due to the gun as most of my shortcomings are me and not the gun.

However, I need to fill my license in order to get an extension so I want to build another one. Was thinking about Tangfolio but they do the Eric system only in 38SA here and 38SA is no option.

Was thinking STI then but with all the export restriction out of the US it can take literally month to get parts and maybe soon no parts at all. For example even a CMore is considered restricted by the State Department and you would need an end user certificate to order it from the US even if you can buy it in any shop in Austria. Also parts which can be sold in the US without problem and been have in Austria without license cannot be shipped without end user certificate.

Anyway, so I would prefer a non US product and came up with SPS. Currently I tend to their 4,5 inch barrel with the 7 chamber hybrid comp. There are 4 possible holes to be drilled so I could start with one and work my way up if necessary. Also unlike STI they offer a slide already prepared for the hybrid barrel. Are also in general cheaper than STI. Not by much but still.

[Sean Gaines]

good post dave

I guess the best way to measure a comp's effectiveness would be to eliminate all the variables. and have a barrel and a comp, and some sort of consistent ignition system. then have that system attached to scales, or some sort of secure measuring device to actually see the true effectiveness of the comp.

One of the first Problems I see is that some comps have different threads, so you would not be able to keep the same barrel for each compensator, unless you where to make a female to male coupling that would accomodate the threads on the barrel and the comp. but it seems like it would be very tedious. The inside of the couplings would have to have the same everything space, diameter etc.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: You could always make your own comp I would use plan mild steel until you get what works for you. Then you could make it out of stainless steel. If you find you want a lighter comp then buy some titanium. Machining titanium is a bit of a bear but with carbide cutters and good machines it can be done. I have found in my limited Open pistol use that bullet weight and powder means alot. I have found the bullet weight I like and now I am still playing with powders. Or you could just pick a comp and learn to like it. Thanks, Eric

[CocoBolo]

XRE I respect your knowledge and opinion. I wasn't implying that I was going to doing a comprehensive comparison test that could be applied to all systems.

I picked up the 5" 38SC std barrel no hole system with replacement part in place. Primary objective to validate accuracy of said system then evaluate performace of replaced component as it compares to prior component.

It is possible that the best outcome could be better than the previous and then this would become a new system.

That said some parts are no longer made so we need to figure out how to get a part that will work on our system. In the grand scheme of things there looks to be two variants being produced the big port and the smaller port design, some have supurfulus holes but are basically one of the to variants. On company or another may produce these variants but likey one pays more attention to detail.

[Flexmoney]

Currently I am using an open Glock right now which I love to shoot. Its very flat and stable and I am quite happy with it. Also dont think that I will improve a lot in the standings due to the gun as most of my shortcomings are me and not the gun.

I'd love to see a complete write up of your Open Glock (it would make a good thread for the Glock section).

[titandriver]

Mr Moose --- try this one -- http://www.pistoldyn...vo-Comp-09.html -- then let us know how well it works. We're all too chicken to try it on this side of the pond!

[XRe]

XRE I respect your knowledge and opinion. I wasn't implying that I was going to doing a comprehensive comparison test that could be applied to all systems.

I didn't think you were implying anything comprehensive - however, it appears that some folks have gotten the idea that doing something like what you're doing could yield a direct comparison, and I was pointing out that that's not the case... That's all I meant You were a convenient example, is all...

I think you'll learn some things via your experiment, for sure - and it'll definitely give you some idea of some things you like/dislike in a setup, and will give you three choices of system to work with. If you read some of the stuff I've written about equipment (on here and on my website), you'll find I'm completely into comparative experiments like what you're doing. I don't think you'll learn the answer to the question posed in this thread, though (for reasons I stated above)...

ETA the below, cause it seemed interesting to discuss...

In the grand scheme of things there looks to be two variants being produced the big port and the smaller port design, some have supurfulus holes but are basically one of the to variants. On company or another may produce these variants but likey one pays more attention to detail.

Hmmm... I can see where you'd get that impression. Based on what little direct comparison I've done (as has been stated above, it's very hard to actually do an objective comparison between just comps, for instance), there's a few other factors that do come into play other than chamber and port size - and as I said before, not all comps (even in the same "big hole" vs. "little hole" grouping) are created the same.

Some things to consider:

- overall weight of the comp + barrel (well, really we're concerned about how much they weigh together toward the front of the gun, but between a comp/bull combo or a comp/cone/standard combo, most of the weight difference is toward the front...). This is going to affect how quickly the gun moves - both in recoil and in gun handling. A gun that handles faster at the front will also tend to move more quickly in recoil (which gives the impression that it shoots harsher than one that moves slower). Shooters who are recoil/concussion sensitive, or who need a softer gun are generally going to want something heavier out front at the expense of needing a little more muscle to move the gun around

- efficient use of space in the comp - this affects weight, obviously. The question is - how much extra meat is on the comp that's not providing a structural support to the thing? Depending on the efficiency of the comp in using gasses, this can create an interesting effect - you can actually have a lighter comp in the same form factor that shoots flatter and/or softer than a heavier comp in the same form factor (because, while I said you can't have "both" at the same time above, one system can appear to be both relative to another, less efficient system). An interesting one to note is the STI TruBor vs. the TruBor barrel with Brazos comp (http://www.1911store.com/stitruborbarrelcomp-withthundercompsxstylecomp.aspx) - same barrel and comp blank, but the Brazos is about an ounce lighter, and a taste shorter (not quite same form factor, anymore, I know, but...)...

- superfluous holes, purpose or none? - I know all those extra holes look all sexy, and seem like they're cosmetic only, but... in many cases, they're there for a reason. They tend to provide lateral stability to the system (ie, they help the gun start to move straight up rather than to the side). In some cases, like one comp I had on my first racegun back in the day, they're there because the comp was otherwise so effective, it wouldn't let the gun unlock (the one problem with the EAA/CZ style guns... too much downforce in the comp, and the gun won't run... ). In one notable case (the Dawson TJ comp), the side ports in the first chamber are there to reduce the amount of gas exiting the top of the comp, which helps reduce the immediate concussion from the comp that the shooter was feeling in the brim of his cap!

Hmmm... that's all I've got for now, have to get back to work

Edited February 10, 2010 by XRe

[CocoBolo]

David - I think we are on the same page. I think that the true underlying question is what comp on the open market can I purchase to put on my gun that will give me good results. A recommendation would be qualified with a description of the system.

[Tzygä]

I like Bedell Titanium Comp because it is light and comp well. My open gun feels like limited gun with Bedell Titanium comp.

[TMC]

For what its worth to this discussion here's a some data I collected yesterday.

I shot my Major open gun and my steel gun with the same ammo. Major gun has a 5" 3 port Schuemann hybrid barrel, a 3 port EGW comp and weights 43.3oz , the steel gun has a Commander length barrel with 2 3/16" drilled holes, a 2 port comp and weights 37.1oz. The load was 7.5 of Silhouette and a Zero 125. Velocities averages were 1343 for the Major gun and 1309 for the Steel gun. As for dot movement, both seemed to have the same amount of lift, which surprised the hell out of me but, the major gun seemed to come back to point of aim were with steel gun returned a little higher.

[XRe]

As for dot movement, both seemed to have the same amount of lift, which surprised the hell out of me but, the major gun seemed to come back to point of aim were with steel gun returned a little higher.

Todd, that's just a difference in timing... The question is, what do your scores look like when you put it on a timer and shoot drills with them side by side....???

[CocoBolo]

Took both guns with new comps to a Action Pistol match today.

Findings Gun#1: Replacing the EGW 7 port comp on my STI Briley Pres made an amazing difference in feel. The gun has gone from violent to soft and flat. This is a light weigh 5" gun with a cone comp, slide weight is about 10 oz and it is running an aluminum guide rod no poppel holes. A big +1 for the Brazos Thunder Comp. I didn't run any drills just mostly testing to make sure bullets did not hit the comp and to get the fell of the gun. Load 10.2gr AA#7 with 125gr Zero JHP. 10# recoil spring.

Findings Gun#2: Replacing the old school sti comp on the Competitor with the Bedell Titanium comp. No suprize the gun lost the nose heavy balance much easier to steer around the COF. This gun did not shoot as soft or as flat as the Briley El Pres with Brazos but it is also a bull barrel with a 10.5 oz slide and no poppel holes. It did go from a snappy beast to somthing pretty easy to handle a big improvement, makes it a nice gun to shoot. 5" competitor 10# recoil, 10.2GR AA#7 with 125gr Zero JHP, no poppel holes. I did have to take the gun back to the smith as the bullets were hitting the bottom of the comp ports so I will have to be drilled out just .002 or so. This made for an interesting match with about every third bullet going to orbit somewhere but not on the target. I am thinking the gun may respond better to a little different powder like N350 orn 3N37 etc.

Conclusion: I will be buying another Brazos Thunder Comp SX for my 9 mm major top end. That top end has a very heavy fishing weight comp on it that does nothing to slow the slide down or cut flip. For those that think its not the comp, watch the classifieds it will be there in a week or so, along with two other comps I removed from these guns. Not looking back.