Premier Reticles Heritage Scope

[00bullitt]

Anybody got a chance to run one of these through the ringer yet?

Feedback?

[Religious Shooter]

I don't have one. But a lot of the cool kids have that scope. One went from an S&B to the Premier and another one went from Nightforce to the Premier.

If I got another scope I would get the Premier 5-25 or the Vortex Razor HD.

[smokshwn]

Tod,

Lots of info over on Snipershide. If you are seriously considering this scope there will be a 25% increase in pricing in the new year.....OUCH!

Here's a couple of links

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthread...6749&page=1

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthread...9555&page=1

[Rob01]

Had one. Didn't like the reticle. Like the standard Gen II better which I had in my 5-25 S&B. Glass was very good to be expected and the 15 mil per turn knobs are much nicer than the original 22 mil per turn on the 3-15 models. Still a little difficult to get to the .1 mil marks when coming out of the MTC full mil clicks. I ended up selling it and bought another Nightforce F1. I like the knobs better on the NF. Better spread between the clicks so there is no confusion.

On a side note, I didn't like the way we prebuy people were treated by Premier. We all paid $2500 up front for the scopes back in Dec 08 to Jan 09. When the scopes started coming out in May/June time frame they were going to the dealers for sales to their customers and the peopel that paid ahead of time waited. There were people who got them well before the prebuy people. I didn't end up getting mine until around August. I wasn't happy reading about people who just decided to get the scope and ordered it from dealers and they got theirs months before I did. Premier should have filled all the preorders first.

Here's a couple of pictures of the knobs and the whole scope on my .308

Edited December 19, 2009 by Rob01

[smokshwn]

I had heard about the prebuy issue and thought it was a major slap to those who put some faith and $$$ on an unknown quantity. Now the 25% price increase is a real ass kicker. I don't wish ill on anyone's business but huge price hikes don't seem to be the best way to increase sales, especially in a down economy.

[Rob01]

I wish them well also as the company has been around a long time but customer service is important.

For anyone who hasn't seen NF knobs up close here's a pic to compare them to the Premier click spacing above. You get 5 mils per turn with the NF but that gets me to 1000 within 2 turns and with the zero stop you won't get lost. I prefer the wider spaced clicks so at a glance I can easily see where I am at. Personal preference though.

[00bullitt]

I lurk on the Hide a good bit. Lots of good info there. I just like to get some validation here. I was trying to see if the high price of the PR scopes was really worth it and I was concerned about the 1/10mil adjustment too. I think my biggest struggle is whether or not to get a first or second plane optic. NF does not have the 5-22 FFP out yet. I've had several NF in the past and its hard to not want another. More than likely its what I will end up with again. Just holding out for their FFP scope and doing as much research as I can until then.

Thanks for the replies. Anymore are welcome.

[Rob01]

00 just start saving and give NF a few more months. A higher powered FFP is already in the works and should be at SHOT. I plan on getting one myself.

[00bullitt]

00 just start saving and give NF a few more months. A higher powered FFP is already in the works and should be at SHOT. I plan on getting one myself.

How are you liking your 3-15 F1 now? Which reticle do you use?

[Rob01]

Love the 3.5-15 F1. Perfect tactical scope in my opinion. I have 2 of them, one on my match rifle and one on my practice rifle, and they are great scopes. I have the mil knobs and MLR reticle. I really like a reticle with 1/2 mil marks as it makes holds much easier and also helps in ranging. I have used the scope to take shots at a 5" dot at 1000 yards and had no problems getting it on target. It just barely quartered it as you could only see a tiny little bit of the circle in each quadrant but it was good enough to take a shot at. It was one shot and I missed by being .1 mil over the dot. 3.6" high. Not the scopes fault but mine as I had added .1 mil as the temp had dropped but I guess I didn't need the correction after all.

I have used many scopes to include S&B, USO, Premier, and Leupold and I really like the F1 over all of them. The only one I would put up there with it and would be only a hair better for some ELR applications would be my 5-25 S&B and only that due to the extra magnification I could get if needed but the higher powered NF will take care of that

[Religious Shooter]

Are you going to use the 3.5-15X at TPRC?

[Jack T]

Ditto!! NF is hard to beat all the way arround, love mine! I was just given a 5-20 Horus with the #37 Reticle to try out and see what I thought. Going to play with it (with an open mind) and see what we can do with it. I can see the positives with a good spoter for the Sniper Matchs.

Jack

[Rob01]

Are you going to use the 3.5-15X at TPRC?

Sure will be. Actually last year I didn't take my 5-25 higher than about 16x as the mirage was so bad.

[Religious Shooter]

Even during the 100 yard stages?

[Rob01]

Yeah those were the worst with that ground baking up. Couldn't see those cards worth a damn. Did well on the 100 yard stuff at around 15x.

[00bullitt]

Rob01......why the MLR reticle instead of the NPR1? To stay mil/mil?

[Rob01]

Yup. I use mil/mil in my scopes. If I was going MOA/MOA I would go with the NP R1.

[Ken Kwiat]

I have a PH 3-15 DblTurn, Gen2 XR and have been using it four months now.

Overall, I like the scope very much. I don't have the exposure to all the scopes mentioned so my bias is based on what I have and am comfortable with. Sure, I wanted a S&B PMII but was able to get my PH for $1K less (comparable features/optics), US-based service, etc. With their price increase, that delta probably drops by a few hundred.

Only issues thus far: with the DblTurn elevation knob (NIB), when I first indexed to the second revolution (indicator button pops), it would not transition back. I sent it back to PH, they turned it around in a day (+ shipping).

My application is the CO/NM/WY Tactical LR matches where FOV at lower mag is important for picking up targets in varied terrain vs. the 5-25x range. FFP rocks -- reticle consistency at any mag range is just so much simpler imo. As long as reticle design is such that it's thin enough at low mag to not obscure too much of the target at full mag. That's where I think the Gen2 XR and P4F seem to be most often recommended.

But I'm a noob at this LR Tactical game. Read Zak's reviews (www.demigodllc.com) or the wealth of info over on SnipersHide. In particular, look at Zak's review of the Hensoldt (another nice but expensive option). He talks about a subjective optics test that he did following the last Raton Sporting Rifle match + reticle choices.

[Bret Heidkamp]

Just got back from SHOT and I got a chance to play with the Premier lineup. There is a new 1.1 to 8x (true 1 power) and it goes from a illuminated dot reticle at 1x to a mil/slash reticle at 8x. Pretty cool.

The 5-25 would be a great choice too, the interesting thing Premier does is they have a tactical feel to the clicks. Every 10 clicks is a bigger "click" so you can feel how far you turned the knob in dim light. You can get their scopes with a single turn knob or a two turn setup. The two turn has a pin that protrudes on the second rev. so you don't get lost. Nice feature to have, as my S&B turns yellow but I am never really on that second rev that much! I'm about 7 mils for 1000 yards, and I think it's 15 mils before I get to the second revolution.

[Ken Kwiat]

Just got back from SHOT and I got a chance to play with the Premier lineup. There is a new 1.1 to 8x (true 1 power) and it goes from a illuminated dot reticle at 1x to a mil/slash reticle at 8x. Pretty cool.

I agree, very cool. Chris from Premier had told me about it months ago so I was really eager to see it live. Lived up to my expectations until he mentioned the price (MSRP of $2900). Ouch. They have a ton of technology into it but that's a pretty pricey optic for 3-gun, imho.

The 5-25 would be a great choice too, the interesting thing Premier does is they have a tactical feel to the clicks. Every 10 clicks is a bigger "click" so you can feel how far you turned the knob in dim light. You can get their scopes with a single turn knob or a two turn setup. The two turn has a pin that protrudes on the second rev. so you don't get lost. Nice feature to have, as my S&B turns yellow but I am never really on that second rev that much! I'm about 7 mils for 1000 yards, and I think it's 15 mils before I get to the second revolution.

Bret's right on in terms of the tactile feel of PH's knobs. I find it very easy to dial to the right number even under stress. It's a beefy knob so I find that I palm it using all of my index finger thru thumb. In other words, it's harder to dial to 3.7 just using the tip of your index finger and thumb given the size of the knob+resistance. I'll typically dial to the nearest full mil (with the bigger click feature), then increment/decrement to the needed tenth.

And now that my indicator tab works, no problems there although I too don't think I'll be getting into the second rev. very often.

[TRG65]

I have used both the PR Heritage 5-25 (my wife's) and the S&B PMII P4 fine 5-25 (mine). Both scopes are excellent and when I was shooting either is noticably better than my NF 5.5-22 (SFP). For the money difference, I would have been very upset if that had not been the case. While both have +'s and -'s, I prefer the S&B. The S&B has .2 mil hashes at the side and top to allow for finer ranging. However, it does not have a .5 mil hash in the first mil out from the center of the reticle. The Gen 2XR has all the .5 mil hashes, but does not have the finer breakdown at the ends. The PR tooless zero feature is nice. Either is a great scope, whether they are worth the money is a personal choice.

[Adam B]

I have owned 3 of the 5-25's and the first one I got the levers broke. Premier more than took care of me, paid shipping both ways and included an extra set of beefed up levers. There has been many changes with Premier as a company over the last year, personally I would look at Nightforce, S&B or the new Vortex Razor. I sold my Premiers and went to Vortex and couldn't be happier. They use HD glass and are right on par with the Premiers/S&B's I have owned. I don't shoot people for a living so my life doesn't depend on my gear, either way it is hard to go wrong with any of the above mentioned scopes.

[blackstone]

I had a PR 3-15 XR and sold it after a couple hundred rounds.

The glass was superb.

The clicks were not positive enough even though mine had the MTC (More Tactile Click) modification.

The XR reticle is simply "too fine" to be useful at anything but at or near max magnification.

It was frustrating trying to use it.

I have/still have USO, and S&B.

I ended up going with another S&B PM II with a Gen II Mil Dot and find it to be a very useful reticle.

Also, the clicks are very positive.

[kgunz11]

Considering the number of scopes sold vs the number of reported malfunctions, Premier Reticles doesn't have the best statistical prosperity in their favor. I've heard more people with problems than people that say "never had an issue". Now that S&B has a USA based service center going up and their prices coming back down (while PR prices are going up for 2010), it seems to me the logical choice is still the S&B or Hensoldt for high end options. I've never had a reason to remove my NF scopes though.

[Rob01]

I would definitely take an S&B over a Premier any day of the week. Proven reliability, great glass, I like the knobs better and was never really keen on the whole MTC clicks on the Premier as it's tough to get to the .1 or .2 mil marks after them. Prices being the same of near the same then S&B is the way to go.