Fullauto_Shooter Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Anyone else notice that VV powder has gone up another $6 per 4lb can at our favorite powder store? At least VVN320 is available once again after being out of stock for a LONG time. What are the odds of powder prices actually coming down at some point?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I guess I can't grudge them the $1.50/Lb over what it was months ago....inflation never stops. My deal is that they hardly have anything else so I can't stock up on several things at the same time. Sure, I could buy a couple of 4lb jugs, but it's nicer when you can spread that $20 hazmat over more than just a couple of jugs of powder. I ought to grab 4 of them knowing I'll eventually use them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 N320 is a pretty awesome powder. It's actually my favorite in 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 N320 is a pretty awesome powder. It's actually my favorite in 9mm. +1 on that plus it's my fav in the 40S&W with 180gr bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I was able to score enough before the prices started to climb that I probably won't need any for 2010. Here's hoping this time next year the prices and availability have stabilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I guess I can't grudge them the $1.50/Lb over what it was months ago....inflation never stops. Inflation is as close to stopped now as it's been in our entire lifetimes. With that said...the dollar is doing pretty good in the world with everyone's economy in the crapper. It might make more sense to blame exchange rates than inflation...which would suggest that the price may go down as the dollar weakens after the economic recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 My favorite powder for anything without a comp, especially moly. Went to solo when you couldn't get it anymore and I probably won't go back to 320 because it isn't almost twice as good (and I'm a cheap ass.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I guess I can't grudge them the $1.50/Lb over what it was months ago....inflation never stops. Inflation is as close to stopped now as it's been in our entire lifetimes. With that said...the dollar is doing pretty good in the world with everyone's economy in the crapper. It might make more sense to blame exchange rates than inflation...which would suggest that the price may go down as the dollar weakens after the economic recovery. Maybe, but we can't be sure when the large retailers bought the stock we saw at the old price. You may be on to something about exchange rates, but that would also vary based upon when they bought the powder previously. There are other factors that could also play into this. The cost of transportation has seen a pretty steady rise over the last couple of years, even if inflation hasn't kept at the same rate. Combined, I just don't see $1.50/Lb increase as a huge jump when you're talking a powder that was still $20+/Lb at the old price. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) I guess I can't grudge them the $1.50/Lb over what it was months ago....inflation never stops. Inflation is as close to stopped now as it's been in our entire lifetimes. With that said...the dollar is doing pretty good in the world with everyone's economy in the crapper. It might make more sense to blame exchange rates than inflation...which would suggest that the price may go down as the dollar weakens after the economic recovery. Maybe, but we can't be sure when the large retailers bought the stock we saw at the old price. You may be on to something about exchange rates, but that would also vary based upon when they bought the powder previously. There are other factors that could also play into this. The cost of transportation has seen a pretty steady rise over the last couple of years, even if inflation hasn't kept at the same rate. Combined, I just don't see $1.50/Lb increase as a huge jump when you're talking a powder that was still $20+/Lb at the old price. R, When they bought their stock has no bearing on the market price. If the gas station buys a half million gallons of gasoline at $3 and the market price drops to $2.80, they have to eat it as the cost of doing business. Stochastic fluctuations in prices fortunately cannot always be passed to the consumer. The cost of transportation (if valued in oil) has also dropped substantially since the market collapsed. Obviously there are many factors that affect market price and if either of us could predict them, we'd be so rich that we wouldn't be concerned about our favorite gun powder costing a little more. But I caution anyone who thinks that today's "reality" will hold forever, simply not to do so. I was told in 2006 (by a coworker) that I'd never see gasoline below $3 a gallon again. I haven't paid $3 for a gallon of gasoline in well over a year now. Obviously this isn't a perfect example, but the point is that the market is much more complicated than what some might predict, and even if gasoline prices had only gone up and never down over that man's 50+ years on earth, it doesn't follow that prices will never fall. Will VV powder ever drop to its old price? I have no idea. I probably will still be too cheap to buy any of it even if it does drop substantially in price, though. My favorite powder for anything without a comp, especially moly. Went to solo when you couldn't get it anymore and I probably won't go back to 320 because it isn't almost twice as good (and I'm a cheap ass.) Actually that's an excellent way to look at it. If a product isn't (subjectively) twice as valuable to you, why pay 2x the price of a competitive product for it? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Edited December 22, 2009 by twodownzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 A group of us are at a shoot and talking about prices, and how hard it's been getting reloading items. More that a few of the shooters went out and picked up some bow's! They feel that if this trend keeps going many of those shooting today won't be in two years! I really hope this is not the case. BUT I have observed many shooters that I know slowing down on the amount of matches they now shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 When they bought their stock has no bearing on the market price. If the gas station buys a half million gallons of gasoline at $3 and the market price drops to $2.80, they have to eat it as the cost of doing business. Stochastic fluctuations in prices fortunately cannot always be passed to the consumer. That isn't how gas stations buy gasoline. They don't pay for it until it's actually sold....at least the name brand stations work that way. This is why a station can get a call from their supplier directing an immediate increase in the price. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriM Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 (edited) consumer pricing is dictated by market demand....prices tend to NOT drift below their peak averages....let's take gas for an example.....the price will surge, to test what the market will stand....once an average peak, or percentage of fluctuation is determined, the price is fixed....same with rent...the landlord will raise rates as long as the tenant will stay....when this old tenant will no longer find value in the increase.....they will simple look for a new tenant and start the cycle over again....does anyone honestly think that rental rates will ever go back down to the percentage of gross income they were 10 years ago? i doubt that....the ratio of cost of goods and services, continues to increase beyond the amount taken in by the consumer.....welcome to the cycle of revolving credit.....once the landlords have exploited their market, beyond it's means, and has collected all the wealth....they will offer that wealth back to the consumer as credit....and the cycle further continues....hence, the existing market conditions....the only way to fix this, is for total collapse and re-structure....the proportions are so far off, that there is no way to collateralize the outstanding debt, with raw assets.... there is no bail out, other than hard work....allow they systems to fail, erase the old books, start new ones, and get back to work....comes down to the barter system....it ALWAYS will....what is the value of the gunpowder to you? what are you willing to pay? that is the price....long and short of it is summed up right there....if everyone decided that vv320 was worth 3% above manufacturing cost, guess what the price would be? 3% above, or the product would go under....simple right? if you want to make an impact on a market, boycott it....or figure out how to make the product your self....that's what we are all doing....we can't afford to bare the market price of factory ammo. so we make our own....right? well..... Edited December 25, 2009 by AriM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 consumer pricing is dictated by market demand....prices tend to NOT drift below their peak averages....let's take gas for an example.....the price will surge, to test what the market will stand....once an average peak, or percentage of fluctuation is determined, the price is fixed....same with rent...the landlord will raise rates as long as the tenant will stay....when this old tenant will no longer find value in the increase.....they will simple look for a new tenant and start the cycle over again....does anyone honestly think that rental rates will ever go back down to the percentage of gross income they were 10 years ago? i doubt that....the ratio of cost of goods and services, continues to increase beyond the amount taken in by the consumer.....welcome to the cycle of revolving credit.....once the landlords have exploited their market, beyond it's means, and has collected all the wealth....they will offer that wealth back to the consumer as credit....and the cycle further continues....hence, the existing market conditions....the only way to fix this, is for total collapse and re-structure....the proportions are so far off, that there is no way to collateralize the outstanding debt, with raw assets....there is no bail out, other than hard work....allow they systems to fail, erase the old books, start new ones, and get back to work....comes down to the barter system....it ALWAYS will....what is the value of the gunpowder to you? what are you willing to pay? that is the price....long and short of it is summed up right there....if everyone decided that vv320 was worth 3% above manufacturing cost, guess what the price would be? 3% above, or the product would go under....simple right? if you want to make an impact on a market, boycott it....or figure out how to make the product your self....that's what we are all doing....we can't afford to bare the market price of factory ammo. so we make our own....right? well..... That's exactly the way the market should work for the most part. I get in fights with my brother about this all the time... he's into "salary caps", "price control", "regulation" and on and on. If you got a company/product... the goal is to maximize profits! When competition comes in (Solo, etc).. you may need to make adjustments otherwise you will price yourself out of the market. Seems so simple to me. Self correcting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriM Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 consumer pricing is dictated by market demand....prices tend to NOT drift below their peak averages....let's take gas for an example.....the price will surge, to test what the market will stand....once an average peak, or percentage of fluctuation is determined, the price is fixed....same with rent...the landlord will raise rates as long as the tenant will stay....when this old tenant will no longer find value in the increase.....they will simple look for a new tenant and start the cycle over again....does anyone honestly think that rental rates will ever go back down to the percentage of gross income they were 10 years ago? i doubt that....the ratio of cost of goods and services, continues to increase beyond the amount taken in by the consumer.....welcome to the cycle of revolving credit.....once the landlords have exploited their market, beyond it's means, and has collected all the wealth....they will offer that wealth back to the consumer as credit....and the cycle further continues....hence, the existing market conditions....the only way to fix this, is for total collapse and re-structure....the proportions are so far off, that there is no way to collateralize the outstanding debt, with raw assets....there is no bail out, other than hard work....allow they systems to fail, erase the old books, start new ones, and get back to work....comes down to the barter system....it ALWAYS will....what is the value of the gunpowder to you? what are you willing to pay? that is the price....long and short of it is summed up right there....if everyone decided that vv320 was worth 3% above manufacturing cost, guess what the price would be? 3% above, or the product would go under....simple right? if you want to make an impact on a market, boycott it....or figure out how to make the product your self....that's what we are all doing....we can't afford to bare the market price of factory ammo. so we make our own....right? well..... That's exactly the way the market should work for the most part. I get in fights with my brother about this all the time... he's into "salary caps", "price control", "regulation" and on and on. If you got a company/product... the goal is to maximize profits! When competition comes in (Solo, etc).. you may need to make adjustments otherwise you will price yourself out of the market. Seems so simple to me. Self correcting... only trouble is, the wealthy don't want to get beat out of their market share, by the small guy....so they invent governmental systems, to scare us all into thinking the world will end, if XYZ goes under.....the real scam, is that life will go on....but everyone is so afraid of losing their leveraged house and BMW, that they just shut-up....watch TV, pay taxes, gte fat on their couch and turn soft....the next thing....they take away our means to rebel (gun control etc....)....it's just the same old scam....the feudal system lives on.... "those who beat their swords into plow shares, will plow the field of those that do not".... WE THE PEOPLE....dictate the price of goods and services....regulation exists, because we can't self regulate....do you know what they call self regulation??? Marxism....sorry to burst the bubble.... and folks....PLEASE stop paying $30 for 1000 primers....it's insane....I still manage to get mine for $25.....don't let dealer hype fool you into thinking they are worth more....they are worth what YOU are willing to pay....ok this is drifting WAY of topic....sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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