Anyone use HK45 for IDPA CDP

[Lumpy McSoo]

Hello,

Just curious if anyone uses or has used the H&K HK45 for CDP class IDPA?

Also, I am not sure if it fits in the box or not.

Any help out there?

Thanks, Lumpy McSoo.

[Lumpy McSoo]

Anyone out there have any updates?

Thanks. The detent plate may do it for me.

Thanks, Later, Lumpy

[Duane Thomas]

<sound of wind whistling through ghost town>

[Duane Thomas]

Moved to the IDPA forum.

Don't hold your breath. Sorry, but from what I've seen HKs are terribly unpopular as USPSA/IDPA competition guns.

[MTU_327PC]

I've seen a couple roll through with .45 H&K's. I shot IPDA with a USP9 up until a month or so ago. I switched off to the M&P Pro because of it being a bit more useful in the competitive shooting circuit.

[Pittbug]

I see glocks and XDs used in CDP but haven't seen a H&K so far. I know someone local who shoots a P30 in ESP. I shot one in .40 and I quite liked it.

[Classic_jon]

A friend of mine used to shoot a HK USP .45 in CDP for a while before going to an M&P. He likes the HK but is faster with the M&P

I have been looking at a P2000 recently and quite like it other than the short grip. The accuracy is dead on.

*shrug* Just all in how you shoot and personal preference I guess.

[kaiserb]

Hello,

Just curious if anyone uses or has used the H&K HK45 for CDP class IDPA?

Also, I am not sure if it fits in the box or not.

Any help out there?

Thanks, Lumpy McSoo.

It fits in the box... I have shot my HK45 three or four times at local matches. The gun works great for that purpose with two minor faults:

1. taking the safety off sometimes decocks the pistol (esp. if you flick it with too much force)

2. The 1911 guys continuously give you gas about shooting in their division.

[Jim Watson]

I shot a USP45 for a short time. It was accurate and reliable but too big for my hand.

Agree with previous #1, if you get on the safety kind of enthusiastically, it will unexpectedly decock the hammer, leaving you with a surprise DA start. They should have made it like the Taurus, down to fire, up for safe, way up to decock, which would prevent that.

If you want a USP for CDP or other cocked and locked use, best get the variant with safety but no decocking position.

[Duane Thomas]

HK calls those their Variants 9 and 10 trigger systems. From Wikipedia:

Variants 9 and 10 (double action/single action, safety lever, but no decocking)

Variants 9 (lever on left) and 10 (lever on right) allow the shooter to carry the pistol in a single-action mode (cocked and locked) with the manual safety engaged. This same pistol, without modification, can be carried in double-action mode (hammer down), with or without the manual safety engaged. The double action mode offers a second strike/double action capability in case of a misfire. The control lever has no decocking function on variants 9 and 10 so one would have to carefully lower the hammer manually.

[Gary1911A1]

HK calls those their Variants 9 and 10 trigger systems. From Wikipedia:

Variants 9 and 10 (double action/single action, safety lever, but no decocking)

Variants 9 (lever on left) and 10 (lever on right) allow the shooter to carry the pistol in a single-action mode (cocked and locked) with the manual safety engaged. This same pistol, without modification, can be carried in double-action mode (hammer down), with or without the manual safety engaged. The double action mode offers a second strike/double action capability in case of a misfire. The control lever has no decocking function on variants 9 and 10 so one would have to carefully lower the hammer manually.

Good to see this posted. I have a HK45 and while I have not accidently decocked it, it's nice to know there is a solution for this problem.

[Ty Hamby]

Yes Yes Yes I love my HK45. I put down my Springfield XD45 5" a year ago and havent picked it up since. It took me 1 match to figure out that my grip at home and my grip during live fire are not the same as they should be. I had trouble semi decocking the gun by riding the safety. once I figured out where to put my thumb I have moved up 30 spots at one of my local matches. Im still only a marksman shooter. Although some say I sandbag I dont I just screw up from time to time. (brain farts). I run this gun on the first sunday of the month in CDP I use a 230gn FMJ running 166-167PF. I use it on the 3rd sunday of the month in ESP at a different club I run 185JHP running 135-140PF I love this load the most. It is an absolute tack driver. Far more accurate than I am. Trigger is breaking in finally 4000+rounds and counting. Gun still looks and shoots as good as new. I love it. I am left handed and have switched the safety to the other side fits in the box by a mile. After posting I realized this is my first post. Hello All.

Edited January 29, 2010 by HK45 Lefty

[Steve Koski]

Hello Lefty!

[Kyle O]

I used one with a 3&4 detent (decocker only) and won CDP Sharpshooter at the Tulsa Badlands a couple of years ago.

The trigger was factory heavy, but I am a better marksman now that I can manage a heavy trigger well.

I'm now on board with the 1911ers though.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I've used an HK45 for CDP and found it to work just fine. Yes, it fits the box and I've never had a problem with an accidental "decock." Work on your grip and that will be solved. I run a P30L in ESP and SSP and am more effective with the HK platform as compared to my previous Glocks and M&Ps. Besides, I wanted to shoot something a bit different without sacrificing performance. YMMV

[Lumpy McSoo]

Thanks everyone. The post was for one of my co-workers who has the HK45 and is thinking about getting into IDPA. He has a 1911 back at his parents but carries the HK45. I have used a Glock 21, 1911, and M&P 45 for CDP. Probably going to use the 1911 this next match up in Massachusettes at the end of the month. I may try his HK45 just for grins at a local match, well, probably not. He would need to get the extra piece for the safety since I have decocked it in dry fire practice.

Later, Lumpy.

[chefcs5]

I have a friend in waterloo Iowa that uses his HK usp45 for idpa and uspsa he says he doesnt train to commpete. He competes to train for carrying. so he uses what he carries. I believe its a good idea for those who arent about winning!

[Duane Thomas]

Yeah, unless you happen to be about becoming good enough to win with what you carry.

[SCfromNY]

I am slightly confused. CDP only allows 8+1 which is why it is usually a 1911. A HK45c would have the 8 round mag. I guess you are allowed not to fill the mag but why wouldn't you just shoot it in SSP or ESP?

[Duane Thomas]

With an 8-round mag you would fill the mag, and start with one in the chamber, eight in the magazine. You could compete in SSP or ESP with the HK .45 Compact, it's just that would probably entail pitting your .45 with 170ish power factor ammo against people firing 9mm at 130ish.

[John Thompson]

While we've had guys use variants of the USP w/o any problems whatsoever the .45 has been nothing but a total disaster. The gun was poorly enginered and makes for nothing but the biggest breaking jam-o-matic we've ever used. Not to mention it jumps in recoil like turbo charged pogo stick (Bruce Gray?).

[Lumpy McSoo]

Ok,

I thank all the thoughts. Now for a new question.

Another co-worker has a H&K USP 45 Expert with the IPSC bobbed hammer and the 5.2 inch polyginal barrel. CDNNs catalog says it is good to go for IPSC but what about IDPA. Here are the slight differences in box dimension.

IDPA Box is

Inches 8 3/4 x 6 x 1 5/8 which is

mm 222.25 mm x 152.4 mm x 41.275 mm

IPSC Box is

mm 225.00 mm x 150.0 mm x 45.000 mm

Now I have another question about Power Factor and Max Barrel length specifically for IDPA so I'll put it there, but its flavor will be:

In the spirit of IDPA I compete with what I carry. I shoot a H&K Compact USP 45. My loads that make PF in the 5.2 inch (if it fits in the box) or a 5 inch 1911 do not in the compact barrel. I am at a sanctioned shoot where they are chronoing loads. They have no other .45 ACP available other than my compact length. It says right in the rule book:

IDPA has a paragraph.

2. Official Chronograph Procedure

Chronograph three (3) rounds at a distance of ten (10) feet using a gun of MAXIMUM barrel length for the DIVISION of the same gun type. If two (2) of the three (3) rounds exceed the power floor, the competitor is in compliance. Prior to each shot, the muzzle of

the gun should be elevated to move the powder charge to the rear of the case, thus giving the competitor every chance to achieve

maximum velocity. Should the competitor’s ammunition fail to meet the power floor, the competitor will have the option to chronograph three (3) additional rounds through his gun. If there is any question as to the bullet weight, a bullet should be pulled and weighed using a powder scale. Any competitor whose ammunition fails to meet the minimum power floor will be

disqualified from the entire match and receive a DNF score.

Seems to me to be up to some interpretation. But if I were a match director, I would have a gun of max barrel length if I was going to chrono loads and if I didn't, I would not DQ someone who is shooting a snubbier than normal barrel. But that is just me.

Also seems to me that a match that is going to chrono should have on hand all max barrel lenghts for all allowable classes and calibers. Sort of overkill, but that is my interpretation.

Personally, I never (well hopefully never) toe the line on PF, I normally go way over. But when I shoot shorter than max length barreled guns, I have come in under PF even though I know they make PF out of the max or near max lenght barrel. This has happened twice in State or National sanctioned shoots and both times they went and grabbed a 5 inch 1911 and my 160 PF loads of 4.2 Clays with a 230 FMJ (which is 0.2 grains over recommended max) went up to about 175 PF.

Later, Lumpy.

[Lumpy McSoo]

Somehow I missed the fact that Duane moved it from H&K to IDPA.

Sorry about that.

By the way, I don't use an H&K (yet) for CDP. Still love my M&P 45 and my Wilson 1911 and my trusty Glock 21 that is getting dusty since I got the M&P 45 with a Burwell competition trigger job. I would be tempted to try the H&K 5.2 Expert if legal. Since I can try a coworkers for free, the price would be right if he ever gets it out here from the left coast. He has stuff in a safe at his parents house that just should be on the east coast.

I have almost been DQd from state and national matches when shooting a pistol that was 0.5 to 1.0+ inches shorter than MAX. In both cases they went and got a 1911 5 inch and I was well over the PF minimums. This would not work for USPSA though...I think.

Later, Lumpy.

MODS, should I start a new topic on Power Factor in IDPA. Seems to me to be an issue if the max barrel length isn't available, in my opinion. I could do a search and then end up with many links that I can't sort through. There has to be a way to set up a bolean search or more advanced than the way I am trying.

Later again, Lumpy.

[Ty Hamby]

I've used an HK45 for CDP and found it to work just fine. Yes, it fits the box and I've never had a problem with an accidental "decock."

FYI

As a left handed shooter I own an ambedextrous version of the HK45. While I was told it makes size and I have passed every box test (3 different boxes 3 different clubs)I wanted to know for sure. I was thinking about using it at a State match this year. I measured the width of the ambedextous control lever and I got 1.663 This is .038 over max width. As a lot of boxes might not be that tight on tollerances, I wanted other to know before they get DQ at a major match. I intend to shave a little off the left side and I rarely use the safety while the gun is in my right hand. Those that have a single side control lever will not have any issue with width.

[Jim Watson]

There are some rule revisions in the works, effective next month. As to chronographing, there is a lot of verbiage but the key paragraph is:

"It is not the match organizers responsibility to try to provide a

gun of every type and caliber. The logistics of this could be

almost impossible. If the match officials can, they may provide

the gun or borrow one from a different match competitor to

reattempt to pass the chronograph. However, if a suitable

substitute can not be obtained, the attempt must be made using

the competitor’s gun. It is ultimately the responsibility of the

competitor to insure his ammunition will make power."

Surely they can come up with a 5" .45 to validate your compact. Surely. Right?

The H&K Expert's catalog dimensions are:

Overall length 8.70 in. OK

Overall height 5.79 in. OK

Overall width 1.73 in. 1.625" box, the lid won't close.