Wanna-b-speedy (part 2)

[Flexmoney]

I went digging on the internet for a graphic to borrow. I found one, but i don't really like it. This is a representation of a target, but the down-0 circle on that target is located higher than it is in the graphic (it's not center of mass like it seems to be in the graphic). Plus, the light bars on the side of the front sight are way too small for my tastes.

Anyway...the idea that I wanted to share was that we can look at the sights (front and rear) as a whole and learn what they need to look like in comparison to the whole target.

What if we go the other way and have an insanely large aiming reference in relation to the target? What does our vision tell us, I wonder?

Lets take away some reference lines:

[spook]

I like the last picture. I realized I wasn't deciding on the position of the dot by looking at the dot itself, but by measuring the visible parts of the target on both sides of the dot.

Man, this makes me wonder what the "front sight focus" when I squeeze the round off really is...

[Flexmoney]

Now you have me making bad drawings. Poor quality, but here are a couple more.

We can look at these with centering on the outline of the target in mind.

Of course, we still want to get with that front sight. It's our best source of information.

[spook]

Flex,

The thing is that I usually run into the problems with these kind of targets:

CrappySP.bmp

Here, the sight allignment, as well as the placement of the whole sight picture becomes very important.

In your last pictures, shooting and A is easy, because you can basically use the whole sightpicture as a huge front sight.

[rvb]

Here, the sight allignment, as well as the placement of the whole sight picture becomes very important.

In your last pictures, shooting and A is easy, because you can basically use the whole sightpicture as a huge front sight.

Sight alignment is always important. I'm not sure what you're saying. If you don't align the sights and just place the "whole sightpicture" on the target, you'll have no idea where the bullet will go.

- Finding the middle of the target. Like Paladin posts, I noticed I will not always find the middle of a featureless object like a white plate or a brown target. Or at least, I will not find it in time (before the gun arrives).

This way, I am still "looking for something" on the target as the sights move in creating a chaos of focusses.

I think the quesion becomes "what is the target?" I get the feeling you are perceiving the WHOLE big brown thing to be your target. Your target is the center of the A-zone. You learn how to call your shots so you know how close to your target the bullet landed. What flex is trying to show is how to learn WHERE that target is in relation to the complete big brown thing.

If the center of the big brown thing is the target, then that eliminates a step as you outlined it. Instead of finding the target (brown thing) and then finding the center, just.... find the target (which IS the center of the A-zone).

So in the drawing you provided it's obvious it's not aimed properly becuase it's not aimed at the target (target = center of the plate). You know this because does not look centered on the sights. To put another way... the plate is easy... the target is in the center which is 1/2-way up and 1/2 way across. The ipsc target is harder because your target, the center of the a-zone, is NOT centered vertically. What flex's pictures show is how the target looks in relation (proportion?) to the sights tells you if you are on the target or not.

You mentioned the target is featureless and you can't always see the scoring zones.... well it's not featureless. There is a head and shoulders all of which give you perspective to help you find the a-zone. Flex's pictures show what you need to learn to see to KNOW where your target is.

Marking the target (the center of the a-zone) in practice will help you learn what it looks like when your sights are on target. What portion of the target do you see in relation to your sights?

I hope that makes sense.... it did in my head.

-rvb

Edited January 13, 2009 by rvb

[Flexmoney]

rvb...very nice.

I've made a big deal out of differentiating the target as a whole versus defining a small area on the target which is where we truly want to hit and drive the gun. It hugely important to me, maybe not to others (?).

I call the small area I want to drive the gun to, and to hit, the "target spot". To me, it is the target within the target...it is the TRUE target.

Flex,

The thing is that I usually run into the problems with these kind of targets:

CrappySP.bmp

Here, the sight alignment, as well as the placement of the whole sight picture becomes very important.

In your last pictures, shooting and A is easy, because you can basically use the whole sight picture as a huge front sight.

Keep exploring (learning from yourself by experiencing your own shooting).

When I get feedback like the sight picture that you posted, I'll ask myself WHY. Here are some things that come to my mind:

- First, did I truly define the target SPOT? Did I pick out an area the size of a golf ball in the center of a steel plate, or did I just decide to drive the gun to the plate? And, by decide...I really mean DECIDE. Do I tell myself what the target SPOT is? Do I visualize it? Do I build my practice sessions around it...thus, making it my default? Do I truly define the target SPOT, and then...do I really DECIDE to use it?

- Did I execute with visual patience? If I have defined the target SPOT well, did I visually locate it? Or, did I just vaguely locate it and then start letting my vision cheat back to the front sight?

- Or, was my vision on the front sight more than I thought and I never really had the chance to locate the target SPOT very well at all?

- Have I done something with my body/stance that makes it harder to get the gun where I want it to go? Is my center of gravity trying to get outside of my knees and toes? (I point my toes outside the arc of my target swings.) Am I not bending my knees enough so that I can get my upper body squared up to the target?

- I had a pretty good example of a physical limitation in my shooting at a local match a few months ago. My lower back had been out. I couldn't really shift left/right very much with my hips. I eventually realized that my range of motion to the right was limited. (My shots told me this.)

All of the above, in my mind, is really a subset of Fundamentals as Brian has shared with us...

The Fundamentals of shooting are:

Locate the target (visually, or with the force).

Aim or point the gun at the target.

Hold the gun there until the gun fires and the bullet has left the barrel.

For me, it's really helpful to truly define the target...I do best by deciding what the target SPOT is.

Then, it's a matter of how to locate it given the information available...how to get the gun to that SPOT...how to keep the gun there until the bullet has left the barrel.

When I do any of that stuff vaguely...I get vague results.

[JasonC]

Thanks, Flex. I have been working on improving my transition speed and found this discussion to be quite helpful.

I set up a couple of targets as far apart as possible to create a wide transition, then started shooting to see what there was to see. What I found was that I had unconsciously matched my transition speed to my ability to accurate stop the gun's movement. By speeding up my transitions, I was unable to decelerate the gun into the A zone and was accepting A-C hits or shooting brown to compensate. Basically, I ran out of skill.

So, to answer your question of "why", I think the answer is because shooting fast A's requires skill, which requires practice.

[TWHaz]

let their be a resurrection

[Flyin40]

Wow this brings back memories...

Flyin

[MemphisMechanic]

I've decided something.

I run an indoor IDPA match with guys who aren't anywhere near the point where they're keeping both eyes open, snapping them properly, and calling all their shots. I'm not going to tell them what I'm doing, but I'm going to set up a hoser-distance stage (about 5-7 yards) with inverted targets, hardcover over half the A-zone, and other tight shots.

We're going to shoot the whole thing, then I'm going to put a bright post-it note or index card in the sweet-spot on every target, and we'll see how the points down and raw times compare.

Anyone want to make a prediction about what will happen to a gaggle of C and D level shooters?

:D

(Unfortunately, I'll be out of town for this coming Tuesday. But I promise that two weeks from now, I will post you guys some video.)

Edited February 21, 2010 by MemphisMechanic

[MemphisMechanic]

Has anyone actually tried artifically shunk A-zones in a live fire match?

I'm excited by this idea. I've done it myself for live and dryfire practice, but never thought about forcing it on my shooters before.

[ck1]

Wow, great thread.

Really has me saying to myself "Why have I been screwing around aiming at the center of these big targets when the smaller one's have been there every single time too? That's really the one I want to hit".

Reminds me of hearing that good Navy pilots landing on aircraft carriers try for the 3rd arresting wire out of 4 as it's the safest and most efficient, wires 2 and 4 are acceptable, while the 1st is considered dangerous as it's closest to the edge of the deck and if one came in too low or caught some wind they could smack into the stern of the ship... most, especially the good one's catch that 3rd one consistently.

[jayd]

let their be a resurrection

And thank goodness it was revived

Great thread

[Tempered]

First time posting on Benos.

Great thread but now my cup is overflowing......

[Flexmoney]

Great thread but now my cup is overflowing......

When all else fails, execute the fundamentals.

[Singlestack]

First time posting on Benos.

Great thread but now my cup is overflowing......

Welcome.

That's what we are here for!