TGO Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 This was my first idea, but Brian said many don't have plate racks, so I should think of something else. Since I don't care what he thinks, I'm posting it anyway. I don't care how good you are or what your score is. But just that you have the balls to try it - because it's hard. If you actually make the effort to try this drill, and try it long enough to improve, then I'll talk to you. If not, then I don't care. The drill is simply the Bianchi Plates, as shot at the Bianchi Cup with a Stock gun. If you don't know what that is, then you'll have to figure it out. (I have to go to the range to practice - I'm leaving for a trip tonight.) If you can shoot the plates with less than 8 misses - you are a stud. If not, you better go practice. I'll talk with Brian later and we will come up with a "test" that can be shot on an IPSC target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Rob, I think most ranges have plate racks, post what you were thinking anyway. We'll take care of Brian for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Step 1: Figure out what the hell the Bianchi Cup Falling Plates Competition is. I don't have all the details yet. This is what I have so far: The Falling Plate Event: This event is a series of six 8inch plates. Each plate is worth 10 points and 1 X. The plates are shot at 10, 15, 20 & 25 yards with the time you have to shoot them varying from 6 seconds to 9 seconds. You may stand, kneel or go prone to shoot the plates, but the starting position is always standing with hands shoulder high. The plates are a hit or miss match. The saying is "there are no 8's on plates" as they can make or break your match. Minimum caliber is 9 mm and the power factor required is 120 The Falling Plate Event is divided into 4 stages; each stage will have 2 strings, with 6 shots per string, 48 shots total. The targets will be 8 inch round medal plates, fired at 10, 15 and 25 yards. Virginia Count 10 yard line on start signal draw and engage 6 plates with 1 round each in 6 sec, repeat once. 15 yard line on start signal draw and engage 6 plates with 1 round each in 7 sec, repeat once. 20 yard line on start signal draw and engage 6 plates with 1 round each in 8 sec, repeat once. 25 yard line on start signal draw and engage 6 plates with 1 round each in 9 sec, repeat once. (Edited by Flexmoney at 2:15 pm on Jan. 18, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 I know this is the "wrong" way to do this, but I improvise my own "plate rack" using 8" disks of cardboard. You have to tape hits, but this does give one some visual feedback about whether one's shots are solid hits or just getting lucky and hitting the periphery. Much easier s/u and teardown too. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 The Plates: A Bianchi plate rack, with 8" plates. Surrender start at the Cup, but who cares if you start hands down. Two strings (of 6 shots only at six plates) at each distance - 10, 15, 20, and 25 yds, for a total of 48 rds. The time limits for each string are, respectively, 6, 7, 8, and 9 seconds. And, since it is "Stock gun rules" - you must shoot all strings standing. Since the strings are timed, any shot .34 over the time limit does not count. OK, get to work. Like The Great One said, if you can't shoot it with less than 8 misses, you better go practice. Actually, I think the 8 misses thing is a bit lenient. I'd say 4 or 6... When you can clean them 4 times in a row, then you're ready for the Cup. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted January 19, 2002 Share Posted January 19, 2002 Shot it one point down at The Cup in '94...unfortunately that was with an Open Revolver..so I guess it doesn't count? Pat lol...funny part was the damn miss was the first string at 10 yards when I short cycled the gun..Doh! PS..it was cool shooting with you at area 1...thanks for being squad mom Oh yeah, I guess you've seen me shoot...lol..guess I'll wait and see if you'll talk to me (Edited by Pat Harrison at 9:10 pm on Jan. 18, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 The plate rack, Good choice. The rack at our club is in need of repair. So my first goal is to fix it, since 2 of the plates are missing Time and lots of open guns have taken a toll. I used to shoot the plates on every range visit with just 1 pass at each distance. Often I would miss just 1 or 2 with an occasional clean run. But 4 48 round runs clean, I'm not ready for the cup If my memory serves me did'nt you hit 505 in a row once Brian? Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myorke Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Quote: from TGO on 10:44 am on Jan. 18, 2002 I'll talk with Brian later and we will come up with a "test" that can be shot on an IPSC target. Just a thought, why don't we revive one of the "old" Standards stages from the Nationals. (I can hear the groans already.) If I remember correctly, the late 80's had some brutal standards. I think they went /something/ like this. (again, let's stick with the stock gun requirement.) ------------------------------------------------------------------ 36 rounds total for a possible 180 points. Three IPSC targets spaced one target width apart. -- 50 yds. -- 6 rds. prone; 8 seconds 6 rds. kneeling; 7 seconds 6 rds. standing; 6 seconds -- 25 yds. -- 1 rd. each target, reload, 1 rd. each target; 6 seconds -- 15 yds. -- 2 rds. each target, strong hand; 4 seconds -- 10 yds. -- 2 rds. each target, weak hand; 5 seconds If I remember correctly, the top scores broke 170. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTheBlack Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 In connection with the topic I started about trying to figure out the relative difficulty of a target at various ranges, it would be useful for you experienced people to get out your old training notes or scores and graph your times & scores over the years. Does a 10% improvement at 10 yards take the same time as aat 25 yards? Does the next 10% happen sooner? Plateaus? etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 mvs, Yea, 505 is correct, but that was with a revolver with an aimpoint (Pat). That was a lot of plates though. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Very cool standard Myorke. So many stages are just gunsmoke and shoe leather on close targets. Marksmanship is the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Brian: Back when you blasted all those plates, several of the gun rag writers were stating that you missed the last plate just to get the ordeal over with. Inquiring minds want to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myorke Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Thank BD. I've always liked Standards and am sad that they aren't shot that often anymore. One thing I always liked about them is that they seemed to be a fair comparison of skills. Sure, there will always be some things that will influence scores but in general, it's pretty much the same challenge for everyone. They tend to remove the major differentiators from the challenge like magazine capacity, how fast you can run, how clever you run a stage, etc. Don't get me wrong, those things are fine (well, maybe not magazine capacity) but I at least want one stage that puts everyone on a level playing field. And for what Rob and Brian are suggesting, I think some form of standards would be a great way to test skills. Fortunately, I'll soon have access to a plate rack and am anxious to try Rob's challenge. But in lieu of that, Standards seem like a good alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Well, I made it to the range with some plate racks. While I didn't do the "test", I was able to get in practice at the 10 & 15 yard distances. The longer distances would have put me over the hill, in the dark, and out of ammo. Here is what I have learned so far: 10 yards, 6 seconds - Six seconds is a long time at this distance. You can have a draw to first shot in 2.0 seconds, then have 0.75 splits...and still have time left over. If you are missing here, figure out why. Better get some groups on paper to see where your gun is hitting. 15 yards, 7 seconds - If you stick with 2.0 second draw, then you have a 1.0 seconds for your splits. Still plenty of time. I had enough time to clear a malfunction and still finish clean. I did get sloppy and miss the last plate on a run. I "quit' in my head before the run was done. No follow through. Big, sloppy mistake. (Edited by Flexmoney at 2:36 pm on Jan. 23, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Flex, You're right, the 10 yard standard is something you can do in your sleep. I think the 25 yarder is the one that's going to give me fits. It's WAY harder, like 4X, than at ten but you only get 3 extra seconds to do it. I'd call the 25 yd plates THE TEST. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 You guys are starting to get the picture. Even though the 10 and 15 yd strings are "easy" - you should NEVER miss one, ever. So there is something to be learned about paying attention ALL the time, even on an easy string. And, when we practice plates, we paint them before we start, and then track our ability on the "easy" runs by the group size on the plate. Ideally, when you're done the entire stage, a really awesome run would not have any bullet hits that didn't touch the "center wad." No straglers, so to speak. So the object is not just to hit the plates, but to KNOW what happened on every shot. Ron, Well, since you asked - at that point, it was not possible for anyone to beat me. (I knew, because then, the plates counted for extra "X's" on your overall match score. John Pride was the only guy who could beat me. He shot before me; cleaned the first 48, and then shot a total of 303 before missing one. So, I knew I only had to clean them, and then shoot 304 (total) to win. No problem; I was shooting an optic sighted revolver. To further complicate the issue, they wouldn't let you leave the line and come back later (after everyone shot for score) to finish. Actually they wouldn't even let me leave the line to get more ammo. (Obviously I didn't bring 500 rds to the line with me.) Robbie was running back and forth to the parking lot, gathering every bit of ammo he could scarf from anybody he could find. I'd already shot all our extra ammo, Frank Glenn's, and Bill Wilsons ammo. And then Ray Chapman decides he needs to pull ammo from the surplus I'm getting from various competitors, just to be sure it makes the power factor. Robbie gives him a - "Comon Ray, it really doesn't matter!" Finally they knuckled under and let me keep shooting. And if that wasn't enough, it was getting dark; many still had to shoot for score. (It was the last day of the match.) So, I just kept picking up the "pace" on the strings until I missed one. (I didn't miss a certain plate intentionally.) be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Brian: Thanks for clearing that up. I really didn't think a consumate professional like you would just say screw it and dump a round into the berm. I used to shoot NRA Action Pistol quite a bit with a 7 inch heavy Power Custom Revolver with the early EER Leupold 1X dot reticle scope on it. I had a plate rack right behind my barn on my own little range too. I used to clean those racks over and over again until it just got old. Eventually the plate rack just became a "gimme" and if a guy couldn't clean them you might as well not even show up at a match. Seems like that was about 15 years ago. Now I manage to miss the pesky little devils with my limited pistol without much effort at all and it really PISSES me off. Obviously, it's a mental thing for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Ron, "I really didn't think a consumate professional like you would just say screw it and dump a round into the berm." lol... I'm with you. I practiced on 6" plates before shooting the actual match a couple years ago. I remember cleaning them twice in a row with my .40. When I actually shot the match with my stock blaster, I missed more than I care to remember. The plates can suck. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Quote: from benos on 12:06 am on Jan. 24, 2002 The plates can suck.be Last Year at the IDPA Winter Nationals my squad started on the plates. Two Bianchi Plate racks at ten and fifteen yards. String one, engage the fifteen yard rack, strong hand only. String Two, lights out, engage ten yard plate rack, freestyle with a flashlight. String Three and Four, Engage either plate rack from either side of the port, using the wall as cover. For the other string, engage the other rack from the opposite side of the port. 24 plates, 39 rounds, 55.57 total seconds. That was good enough for second place in my class and division. Lots of people were taking more than 100 seconds to shoot this. I was happy that I never had to go to a second magazine. I hated that stage ----- until I was looking at the results again last night, to analyze what types of stages I shot well, last year, so I could plan the remainder of my practice sessions for this year's match. By the way, TGO shot it in 20.24 seconds. This year's Goal? Ten seconds for the fifteen yard rack, Nine seconds for the ten yard rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Brian, now that's a GREAT STORY! Hell, YOU WERE There! Ron, thanks for asking him about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 28, 2002 Share Posted January 28, 2002 Brian talks about NEVER missing on the plates at the closer ranges. That reminds me of a realization that I had while going over the stage descriptions before going out to the Limited Nationals. Most of you have likley figured this out long ago. I'd just like to share it, if for no other reason than to cement it in my mind. The close plates remind me of those 30 and 40 point stages that we all see at matches. You might not win the match on those stages...but you sure could lose the match on them. I try to dial it down and not worry about dropping a few stage points...as opposed to going all out and risking a miss or no-shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 Kyle, lol...... Yeah, you sure can lose the match on those stages! I'll always remember jumping up to that little red car's window and trying to figure out just exactly where my gun had gotton away to. Great thought, I will try to "cement that one" in my mind too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 #Moderation Mode Moved here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Brown Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 I'm fairly new to USPSA and I don't have the database of standards stages some of you guys have. There's a website on handgun standards courses by the FBI and Gunsite and some others, but I have tried them and they have not been very challenging. Can someone post some more challenging standards stages and some of the higher scores from them? The plates test was way cool and the other standards stage that was posted was tough. On the previously posted standards are the six shot strings from the 50, two on each or six shots on one target prone and then six shots kneeling on the next? Michael Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 20, 2002 Share Posted March 20, 2002 MB, If you can't find drills and such to shoot on this site then you aren't looking hard enough. There are whole sections on this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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