Gunsmith Help, .45 SS, round in front of extractor ?

[el pres]

I've got a .45 Spartan that I'm trying to get to run 100%. Useing 200gr LSWC

and am getting a nasty jam. At times this happens every other mag but mostly

every 60-80 rounds or so, a round feeds in front of the extractor.

Nasty because the extractor does not fit over the rim so I have to drop the mag and

let that round fall out either through the top or the bottom.

I've worked the ramp smooth, I dont think it's a mag as it is random and hand cycling

I found that if the mag released the round too early then I would probably get a round

behind it ??

Hand feeding slowly, I cant figure out how this happens ??

Thanks in advance !!

Wanted to add, as the gun gets dirtier, the less often it happens ??

Edited October 27, 2009 by P.Pres

[Guy Neill]

You say you don't think it's a magazine problem... Have you marked the magazines and noted the problem with multiple magazines? If not, that would be the first step.

Also, inspect the magazines carefully. Check for cracks that may allow the feed lips to release the cartridge too soon. You may want to measure the feed lips of the magazines as well and see what sort of variation there may be. This could relate back to specific magazines causing the problem.

You also mention that it occurs with the magazine releasing early... What's the possibility of your hitting the mag release under recoil?

Guy

[el pres]

Yes, multiple magazines with no pattern. The mags are fairly new and the feeds lips

all measure out pretty close.

What I ment about the mag "releasing too early" was if the mag was releasing the round out the

top "too early", I tried to force this type of malfunction by hand and always got another round

caught by the slide behind it ??

This is the first "ramped frame" gun I've owned and I did find that when hand cycling, the SWC's noses

always stop on the ramp to barrel bevel transition point as the barrel is about .050 forward of the

end of the top of the ramp at the barrel's most rearward position. Should I hand message the ramp

to match the barrel more closely ??

Edited October 27, 2009 by P.Pres

[G-ManBart]

What oal are you using? I'm wondering if the rounds can move forward a lot in the mags. It shouldn't matter, but with the round way forward and the slide catching the round farther forward in it's travel I wonder if it could just cause the extractor to miss. You could try tapping the mags to make sure the rounds are all seated to the rear. Also, you could try loading mags with a round here and there intentionally forward and see what happens hand cycling and live fire. Just a couple of thoughts...

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Sounds like the extractor may be too tight. Thanks, Eric

[Y. Koester]

quit being stubborn, aftec time!!

[el pres]

OAL 1.255, Yes they do move forward in the mags and this is what I was thinking but

while hand cycling, I found that the extracting shell drags the round in the mag back as the slides opens

and beside that, the slide is what pulls the next round out. So no matter where I place the round

fore or aft, the slide is what pushes it off and it neatly slips straight under the extractor everytime.

The extractor "should" not be too tight because I could move it with my finger about 1/3 its travel.

What about too short ?? Should I just get an Aftec and be done with it ?? I really dont want to spend

the money ..

Edited October 27, 2009 by P.Pres

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: My Spartan runs like a top but I also use Wilson 47 D's and round nose bullets loaded to 1.220" OAL. I also use a 14lb ISMI recoil spring. I did have a Kimber that had a very tight extractor that was doing the same thing as your Spartan I loosened it up and all was great. I also have a STI 2011 I built that had a Aftec that was too tight that I had to cut down the front spring some. It runs great now. You may have to tune your extractor. My Spartan does not like McCormick mags or Mecgar mags for some reason. It likes the Wilsons and Metalform Elite mags. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[tpcdvc]

Could an inertia feed. Here is a pic of it happening. Replacing the mag springs or increasing the mag spring power would be the fix.

[el pres]

Could an inertia feed. Here is a pic of it happening. Replacing the mag springs or increasing the mag spring power would be the fix.

Wow !! How did you ever catch that pic ? This kind of makes sense, the rounds do fly out of the mags

very easy and the only way I could think of this happening is that the slide hits and lauches the round

forward of itself .. I'm going to try a few things ??

Aircooled6: What kind of bullets are you running ??

And what does the gun do with the Chip Mccormick mags ??

Thanks for all of your comments so far !!

Edited October 27, 2009 by P.Pres

[Dan Sierpina]

That overall length with a H&G 68 style should feed just fine. I've used Wilson-Rogers mags for years, with Devel conversions (that should give you an idea of the age) with no problems. Check the width of the breach face, it could be on the low end of the tolerance, and the brass rim on the high side.

The extractor may need some massaging. There is no need to change the extractor.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Dan Sierpina

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: The bullets I use are the Precision 200 grain round nose. The McCormick mags don't work for me. When the last round is fired and the slide goes to slide lock the follower goes forward and does not allow the mag to drop freely. I say for me since lots of guys have no problems at all with the McCormick mags. I just use the 47D's for my Spartan mostly with a S&A magwell. Thanks, Eric

[adweisbe]

New mag time. The gun recoils and the cartridge wants to stay where it is while the gun is torquing. If the mag doesn't bring the rounds with the gun (spring pressure) then they will work their way into the chamber. Hand cycling won't show you anything because there is no recoil.

Switching to lower power factor ammo will expand the range of magazines the gun will be reliable with. Tightening slide to frame fit and using heavy grease to make the recoil a little less sharp can also help the mag keep up.

[calishootr]

sounds like a tight extractor that isnt letting the next round 'cam' up under the extractor, wiegand used to sell a tension guage, brownells....polish the inside of the extractor hook???? look for burrs.....

or.......bite the bullet and get an aftec and be done w/ it....