00bullitt Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Was talking to another friend who shoots matches with us and we were talking about IMGA and the rule sets associated with several different matches. I know there are some on here that have been doing this for a while and know the history. Could some of y'all explain how IMGA got started? Google and the search really don't turn up a whole lot about the specific question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rz317 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Was talking to another friend who shoots matches with us and we were talking about IMGA and the rule sets associated with several different matches. I know there are some on here that have been doing this for a while and know the history. Could some of y'all explain how IMGA got started? Google and the search really don't turn up a whole lot about the specific question. I've been curious about this myself, and know what you mean about Google not really bringing up a lot of info. I've wondered if IMGA is an actual body, or ever once was, who started it, etc. After looking around on 3gunrules.com, it seems that the earliest IMG rule set I have found is 2003, so we know it is at least that old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Superstition Mountain has been using IMGA scoring for many years, since WAY before 2003. I think they may be the first. In fact, the way I heard it, Dan Furbee was the one who made the first set of IMGA rules, and set-up IMGA. I know he's running SMM3G again this year, and I think he would be the guy that knows the answer. The rumor is that Dan isn't on Enos much, but maybe someone who is, can get the poop on the scoop from Dan himself!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Someone should really do a history of the sport wiki before this lore is lost to the ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rz317 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Superstition Mountain has been using IMGA scoring for many years, since WAY before 2003. I think they may be the first. In fact, the way I heard it, Dan Furbee was the one who made the first set of IMGA rules, and set-up IMGA. I know he's running SMM3G again this year, and I think he would be the guy that knows the answer. The rumor is that Dan isn't on Enos much, but maybe someone who is, can get the poop on the scoop from Dan himself!!! I just sent Mr. Furbee an email... hopefully he will help shed some light on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 What scoring system did the Soldier of Fortune match use? That was one of the first big 3-gun matches wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) IMGA was owned by a guy in California, it was a loose conglomerate of shooters that had a news letter which covered stuff like how to scort a match and how to put one on, and a sugested scoring system. Dan Furby bought the rights to IMGA from him around 95 and as far as I know still has them, but IMGA rules as they were are a bit different than the ones we see today. SOF had their own scoring system that was developed by Mike Horne and Mike Wadalich and scored by Brenda Wadalich. Their rules were different yet and in many ways much more lenient as to the shooting part, but much more strickt in the equipment part ( this is where we got the 22" barrel rule for shotguns, a very small list of approved optics etc.) Both systems ALWAYS mixed Optics and Iron together at the end so there was only one big prise table, which is much better in My opinion. RM3G is kind of the offshoot of the old SOF matches. Bob Brown moved the SOF matches to Raton for the last two real SOFs, then the local RM3G club (which started back in the late 80s) took over running it as RM3G, as all the personel involved in RM3G were the ones doing the SOF at Raton. The old crew that did the first 3 RM3Gs are long gone, and the rules have certainly morphed...but it is the son of SOF. I could write it all down as I was around for a lot of it, but no-one would bother to read it as all you young wippersnappers just want to party and go fast SOF WAS the first ever 3-gun match, it started in 1979 Edited October 14, 2009 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Kurt, if you write it I will read it. I am too old and slow to party anyway Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) SOF WAS the first ever 3-gun match, it started in 1979 "1979" Kurt, I'm a young wippersnapper and would read the whole thing !!! Edited October 14, 2009 by P.Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Kurt......Dew it I'll read it you old goat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Furbee Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I don't know if I can give a short, simple answer. The Soldier of Fortune matches were run by Michael Horne and Mike Wadalich for quite a few years. I shot the SOF matches for around 10 years and always thought there was room for improvement. I felt there should be a class for "Open" guns like in IPSC but the guys with SOF were firm on their match convictions, "My match, my rules." They didn't even allow brightly colored magazine bases for pistol mags. They tried to make the match like a real gunfight. My philosophy has always been that until the target start shooting back, this is simply a game. In 1994 I met a guy in CA who started the International Multi-gun Association (IMA) but he had to stop when he was almost killed in a motorcycle accident in '95. I took it over and went to the Practical Pistol Division at Rio Salado Sportsman's Club in '95 with the idea that we could host a world class 3 gun match like SOF but vastly improved. I got the blessing of the club, and the SUPERSTITION MOUNTAIN MYSTERY 3 GUN was born. We held our first match in 1996 for 67 enthusiastic competitors and a handful of very generous sponsors, with Dillon Precision as the overall match sponsor. From 1996 to 2005 the match and the rulebook grew. Rules are there to try and "level the playing field" so all competitors have an even chance. These matches should be about shooting skill and not who has the latest and greatest accessory that ensures they win. It should be about ability and not "cubic bucks." I worked on the IMA rules for ten years trying to make sure the game we play is fun and fair. I always believed that the surest way to failure is to try to please everybody. On certain rules and decisions some people agreed with me and some didn't. Oh well, that's life. For the match in 2010, there will be a few new changes. I hope they please most of you. In Heavy Metal class, the minimum caliber is .44. Polymer framed guns are allowed BUT there is a 10 round magazine limit. Yes, that means the 10 round mags are allowed for the single stack 45s also. This match should be FUN. I have always felt that shooters come to a match for the camaraderie and the excitement of enjoying a shooting sport. If you happen to walk away from the prize table with something really neat, that's a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rz317 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't know if I can give a short, simple answer. The Soldier of Fortune matches were run by Michael Horne and Mike Wadalich for quite a few years. I shot the SOF matches for around 10 years and always thought there was room for improvement. I felt there should be a class for "Open" guns like in IPSC but the guys with SOF were firm on their match convictions, "My match, my rules." They didn't even allow brightly colored magazine bases for pistol mags. They tried to make the match like a real gunfight. My philosophy has always been that until the target start shooting back, this is simply a game. In 1994 I met a guy in CA who started the International Multi-gun Association (IMA) but he had to stop when he was almost killed in a motorcycle accident in '95. I took it over and went to the Practical Pistol Division at Rio Salado Sportsman's Club in '95 with the idea that we could host a world class 3 gun match like SOF but vastly improved. I got the blessing of the club, and the SUPERSTITION MOUNTAIN MYSTERY 3 GUN was born. We held our first match in 1996 for 67 enthusiastic competitors and a handful of very generous sponsors, with Dillon Precision as the overall match sponsor. From 1996 to 2005 the match and the rulebook grew. Rules are there to try and "level the playing field" so all competitors have an even chance. These matches should be about shooting skill and not who has the latest and greatest accessory that ensures they win. It should be about ability and not "cubic bucks." I worked on the IMA rules for ten years trying to make sure the game we play is fun and fair. I always believed that the surest way to failure is to try to please everybody. On certain rules and decisions some people agreed with me and some didn't. Oh well, that's life. For the match in 2010, there will be a few new changes. I hope they please most of you. In Heavy Metal class, the minimum caliber is .44. Polymer framed guns are allowed BUT there is a 10 round magazine limit. Yes, that means the 10 round mags are allowed for the single stack 45s also. This match should be FUN. I have always felt that shooters come to a match for the camaraderie and the excitement of enjoying a shooting sport. If you happen to walk away from the prize table with something really neat, that's a bonus. Mr. Furbee, Thanks so much for posting. This has explained a lot. However, who was the was the "guy in CA"? As Sinistral said, this history shouldn't be lost to the ages. Thanks, RZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Yes! Thank-you very much! It's good to get the straight scoop! Look forward to SMM3g! Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks40 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Kurt, if you write it you know it will be read. I hate losing knowledge because we don't ask for it. Besides it sound like a good reason to pour a scotch, light a good cigar and see where this all started! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Kurt, if you write it you know it will be read. I hate losing knowledge because we don't ask for it. Besides it sound like a good reason to pour a scotch, light a good cigar and see where this all started! That may end up something like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks40 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Kurt, if you write it you know it will be read. I hate losing knowledge because we don't ask for it. Besides it sound like a good reason to pour a scotch, light a good cigar and see where this all started! That may end up something like this That's too funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Kurt, if you write it you know it will be read. I hate losing knowledge because we don't ask for it. Besides it sound like a good reason to pour a scotch, light a good cigar and see where this all started! That may end up something like this That's too funny! That was great !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Question on IMGA rules for an Open gun start with a Bi-pod. is it required in the IMGA rules to have the bi-pod folded before the start of a stage? Or isn't that normally listed in the W.S.B. ? I know what USPSA Multi Gun Rules say. Every thing I look up on line does not have it spelled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I believe it has to be in the WSB, at SMM3G, I started with my bipod already extended on 2 stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Open should allow you to start with everything Open, your BiPod, your mouth, or your fly. Edited April 23, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Open should allow you to start with everything Open, your BiPod, your mouth, or your fly. Thanks That does make perfect sense to me. And/Or so long as the start is the same for every shooter on the stage, in the absence of a WSB for the first Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 What should it be? (And I already know the Mayor's view). It's one of the questions that came up for the new USPSA book. Open or closed at start. I'm good with open but hadn't heard a lot of thought either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I wish that I had read this thread three times - three years ago. " Safe - Fair - & Fun " a person should not be slammed for saying that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Safe-Fair-Fun???? DWEEB! (See a person "can't" say that without getting slammed!) At times that rule has been written in the IMGA rules, and it was always understood that anything like a bi-pod would start folded. The reasoning behind it was from the S.O.F. days in which it WAS a "tactical" match and their premiss was that you wouldn't be out patroling with your bi-pod legs open, they would get in the way and snag on stuff. I think that is as salient today as it was back then, as I don't know anyone who has a bi-pod on their rifle and walks arouns all day with it deployed while hunting, hiking etc. I think that allowing open to "anything" at the start opens a can of worms, like, well I started aimed at the target with the safety off, cause I'm open. I know it,s supposed to be an empty chamber start, but I'm open...etc. Edited April 25, 2012 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I'm just getting confused with - facts- and things that make perfect since. Next time I have a question I will just send Kurt a note as he can explain it to me in a slow way that I can understand. Safe Fair Fun To keep from being called a Range Nazi I will stay off the timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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