entropic Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 So... I came across an S_I frame today that a guy made. He's a machinist and they look pretty good and he had a completed gun which seems to function fine. I am a soon to be law student and I have some respect for intellectual property... So are these copies illegal? I'm assuming so, but thanks for your input, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 If he isn't selling them I doubt there's much that can be done about it. I've heard of a few other tool and die/machinist types making what is essentially a copy, but never heard of any kind of legal action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroed Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) see link--- patent Edited September 26, 2009 by schroed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropic Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 see link---patent Looks like the patent is up in march 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIGUY Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I wondered about that too? I saw an add for SPS in USPSA Frontsight (I guess it's a European co.) and its seems to be the same frame as STI/SV design. The company also sales mags to fit the STI/SV frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 they are not patent protected in europe. here is a link of a copy here in us. I started this link and nothing ever came of it, check this site out, they have the sti like grip and modular frame. http://www.fusionfirearms.com/servlet/the-...%2C-Wide/Detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroed Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Some great ideas come out that patent which defined the tools of our game. Another legal issue related to topic, this guy is making a frame which has serial numbers........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Fusion parts are made by STI. If you replicate a design for personal use, no law has been broken. Just don't try to make a buisness out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) they are not patent protected in europe.here is a link of a copy here in us. I started this link and nothing ever came of it, check this site out, they have the sti like grip and modular frame. http://www.fusionfirearms.com/servlet/the-...%2C-Wide/Detail It's "STI-like" because STI builds it. I responded in your thread and mentioned that. Fusion just buys these products from STI. STI produces these for Fusion. Why would something come of it? Edited September 26, 2009 by jasmap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) they are not patent protected in europe.here is a link of a copy here in us. I started this link and nothing ever came of it, check this site out, they have the sti like grip and modular frame. http://www.fusionfirearms.com/servlet/the-...%2C-Wide/Detail It's "STI-like" because STI builds it. I responded in your thread and mentioned that. Fusion just buys these products from STI. STI produces these for Fusion. Why would something come of it? Exactly. STI builds parts for a number of companies and puts their names/serial numbers on them. AR lowers are probably the best example of that scenaro...only a couple of places actually make them compared with the number of companies selling them. R, Edited September 26, 2009 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 There is the problem about serial numbers even if you make it for your personal use. You can contact BATF for information about building a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01G8R Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Here is my understanding. If you make it for personal use it doesn't need a serial number. If you make it yourself and then sell it the ATF suggests you mark it. If you make a bunch (technical term) of them you are manufacturing and need to be licensed. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/building_a_firearm.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropic Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 I've never heard of marking a homemade firearm with serial numbers. Lots of guys build AKs from flats or have ARs machined for personal use. As long as you don't make receivers to sell, it shouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 This guy has done some pretty impressive work...didn't see any serial numbers: http://www.cncguns.com/projects/stiframe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroed Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 My comment earlier about the serial number it is the frame that the government regulates. I never heard that it was legal to make your own without the proper approvals, to me it is not worth the risk, guess I learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) I've never heard of marking a homemade firearm with serial numbers. Lots of guys build AKs from flats or have ARs machined for personal use. As long as you don't make receivers to sell, it shouldn't be a problem. Could be he marked it so it could ID'd for theft or insurance purposes. As to the "proper approvals" all you have to get is an approved Form 1 http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53201.pdf Edited September 27, 2009 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 As to the "proper approvals" all you have to get is an approved Form 1 http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53201.pdf I could well be wrong, but I thought the "Application to Make and Register a Firearm" is required for a "home made" SBR (hence the $200 fee) while the manufacture of multiple frames requires a Manufacture's FFL. If building an SBR you could use a commercial AR lower, get it engraved with the appropriate information or you could build your own lower from scratch or an 80% kit, get it engraved with the appropriate information and a serial number of your choosing, file this form with the BATF and once approved, voila, a legal SBR. As for a one off STI or AK (non NFA) for personal use, no paperwork or serial number is required by the BATF. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 As to the "proper approvals" all you have to get is an approved Form 1 http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53201.pdf I could well be wrong, but I thought the "Application to Make and Register a Firearm" is required for a "home made" SBR (hence the $200 fee) while the manufacture of multiple frames requires a Manufacture's FFL. If building an SBR you could use a commercial AR lower, get it engraved with the appropriate information or you could build your own lower from scratch or an 80% kit, get it engraved with the appropriate information and a serial number of your choosing, file this form with the BATF and once approved, voila, a legal SBR. As for a one off STI or AK (non NFA) for personal use, no paperwork or serial number is required by the BATF. Bill Bill, To my understanding you are correct. I was referring to the poster who was asking about someone who had homebuilt a single receiver AND put a serial number on it. In which case he could have used a Form 1 to register the serial number as a non manufacturer licensed individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austex Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 It expires July 8, 2012. see link---patent Looks like the patent is up in march 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austex Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Fusion parts are made by STI.If you replicate a design for personal use, no law has been broken. Just don't try to make a buisness out of it. Actually, it's still patent infringement. Under the patent law, "whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention ... infringes the patent." Shooting the copy would be a separate infringement. As a practical matter, though, it would not make economic sense to go after an individual who made a copy for personal use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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