MemphisMechanic Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) A search came up with very few results, and there hasn't been a single post devoted entirely to sights in this forum yet. Why hasn't someone started a thread similar to my post over on GlockTalk, but about M&P sights? http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php...t=sight+roundup I want a sight picture similar to my current setup. I'm making the switch from the G34 to the M&P9L, and I want a sight picture similar to what I'm used to. This is what I've been working with for the past 2 years: My current sights are .150" rear, and a .115" front... I like my current sights - they have a front that's about 50% of the width of the rear notch. Most of the M&P options appear significantly tighter than that. I like the black-on-black I currently run, but I'm having trouble finding anything for the front of an M&P that isn't fiber optic, so I might give the fiber front another try. I've improved dramatically since the last time I used a fiber front sight - so I'm willing to spend the $$ on one to see if I'll like it. The only thing I'd like to ditch about the Sevigny sights I currently use, is the 6-oclock-hold at 25+ yards. I like a gun that shoots point-of-aim, so I'd love to lose that little 'feature' in the changeover. Burwell's rear sight looks intriguing (LINK) but he doesn't say what width the rear notch is. I assume that the front post in the picture below is a Dawson, which means his rear sight is probably .125-.130 in width. Burwell rear sight: If that's a Burwell rear sight with a .125" width Dawson front, I might have what I'm looking for: I could simply couple that rear sight with a .100" Dawson front to get some air on either side of the front post, and be on my merry way. Any suggestions? What sights are the rest of you guys running, where does a 130PF 147gr bullet land at 25-30yds, and how much air is there in your sight picture? Edited September 17, 2009 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuck in C Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'll just whine here that Dawson doesn't make a plain black front sight for the M&P as they do for the Glock. They only have a fiber optic. I'd buy one if they did: its what I have on my G34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDYZ Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 If you like the Sevigney Competition rear on your Glock then why don't you get the same rear sight for the M&P? The POA/POI can be adjusted with different height front sights. I'm running a Sevigney rear and a .100 Dawson FO front and my sight picture looks about like the first pic you attached but a little looser. I don't like the fiber too bright so I painted half of it to dim it down. I have a friend who inserted a black rod to get rid of the FO all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 There are just as many options available as there are for the Glock. Warren makes the Sevigny and Warren rears for the M&P. CPWSA stocks them. You can couple that with a .160" tall front sight from Dawson or Speed Shooter Specialties. Dawson does make a .100 and .125 x.265" tall black target front. You can file it to the desired height you want. And I'd be willing to bet that Kenny could cut you a target front to your specified height but you would be limited to .100" wide as that is the widest blanks he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Why hasn't someone started a thread similar to my post over on GlockTalk, but about M&P sights?http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php...t=sight+roundup LOL...until your thread on GT...there wasn't one for Glock sights either! ARRRG... <me, wanting to make pirate sound> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDYZ Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 You can couple that with a .160" tall front sight I'd go with a .180 tall front for the 9L. Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 You can couple that with a .160" tall front sight I'd go with a .180 tall front for the 9L. Just a suggestion. Good catch....I did not notice he was talking about the longer M&P. Standard M&P's use the .160" Also....FYI.....black nylon broom bristles work well to black out a fiber optic sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Try searching here... http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDYZ Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Also....FYI.....black nylon broom bristles work well to black out a fiber optic sight Ha! great idea! My friend used black phone wire but I'll give the broom bristles a try! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 You can couple that with a .160" tall front sight I'd go with a .180 tall front for the 9L. Just a suggestion. Will that result in a point-of-impact hold on a 25yd target? I don't like the gun hitting high, like the Sevigny's do currently. I know that there's a Sevigny rear is made for the M&P... But Warren says they currently don't have a front for the longslides. If you guys can recommend one that'll get me a .115-.110 front blade which hits accurately, I'd be perfectly happy. ...Now if I could just find one that wasn't F.O. I'd be super happy - but like I said, I think I want to give a fiber front another try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filishooter Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) It's not the rear sights fault its hitting high...but the relationship of the front to the rear. I have a M&P Pro with the Sevigney Comp rear and Dawson .180x.100 FO front. For me, it hits just slightly high at 25 yards. Not sure how much of that are the sights and how much is user error. Anything under 20 yards and the sights seem like they are dead on, so it might be me. I think the Warren rears are a little higher than the factory rear. If you look at the Warren set for the 4.25" gun their front sight is listed at .165 tall (factory is .160). Why? I would bet a .185 sight would get you closer to POI on the 5" gun. Kenny from Speedshooters can make custom sizes as mentioned above. Dawson has a FO that is .190 in different widths that might also work for you. You might want to start tall and file it down yourself in between shooting groups to get it exact. We all see the sights differently. Edited September 17, 2009 by Filishooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I recommend getting the Dawson .125x.265 tall target front and filing to the width you desire and then installing and filing for your POI and then adding a little cold blue to treat the raw surface. That is what I would do if I were running fixed sights. I actually just installed a set of the Dawson adjustables about 15 minutes ago. I really like the sight picture of the .100x.265" front. The rear notch is .115". On my competition guns....I prefer an adjustable sight. Carry guns get the Warren plain rear and tritium white outline front. Sounds like you may have gotten the wrong front sight with your Sevignys for your Glock. There is a .215" tall that gives dead on hold POI and a .245 tall for those that prefer the 6:00 hold. Is your front sight the .245" by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) I actually just installed a set of the Dawson adjustables about 15 minutes ago. I really like the sight picture of the .100x.265" front. The rear notch is .115". On my competition guns....I prefer an adjustable sight. Carry guns get the Warren plain rear and tritium white outline front. This is one of the reasons I swtched to another gun from my M&P a while ago. I HATE not having my gun sighted in just perfect at 25 yds. I want the group centered around the top of my front sight. My mind is too simple to figure what holds I need other that this! This of course, is only for competition. Carry guns don't need that kind of accuracy to 25 yds. Memphis- I used FO for a couple years and switched to black 6 months ago. I am quite happy with the black. Sure... that red dot jumps out at you as clear as day on a sunny afternoon but that variation is annoying. Plus on tough shots the FOs take too much attention away from the top of the post. Edited September 17, 2009 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Food for thought. I used to shoot red and green FO. Green washed out too easily for me and red was too overpowering. So I went to black. Big improvement but there were times on speed shoots where I just didn't pick up the sight the way I wanted to. ima45dv8 sent me a link to a fiber optic supply house and I bought a variety pack of fiber for bow sights in 1mm/.040". It came with 1 foot of each: red,orange,purple,yellow and green for like $16. The purple was like a very light violet. It worked really good for indoor shooting but had a weird contrast for outdoors unless the sun was extremely bright. I then tried orange. I have been shooting orange for about 1 1/2 years now if that tells you anything. Its not to overpowering and it does not wash out. It is just enough color to draw the sight to my eyes and it still leaves the crisp outline of the front sight. For me....it was the ticket. Might be worth a try for some of y'all. Just wanted to throw this out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filishooter Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I recommend getting the Dawson .125x.265 tall target front and filing to the width you desire and then installing and filing for your POI and then adding a little cold blue to treat the raw surface. This sounds like the best solution. You'll get the exact POA/POI you want, the plain front AND it will be cheaper. I might give it a try myself but with the .100 width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Speed Shooter Specialties has extra tall sight blanks. When I set up an M&P, I put a Burwell rear on, push on the Tall sight, and go to the range wth the ammo. I then start shooting groups on a steel 18x24 and adjust the front sight down with a file until I get the elevation I need for POI that I want (I hate 6 oclock hold). I then take it to my smith with a mill and let him thin it down and clean it up. Done. Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Speed Shooter Specialties has extra tall sight blanks. When I set up an M&P, I put a Burwell rear on, push on the Tall sight, and go to the range wth the ammo. I then start shooting groups on a steel 18x24 and adjust the front sight down with a file until I get the elevation I need for POI that I want (I hate 6 oclock hold).I then take it to my smith with a mill and let him thin it down and clean it up. Done. Good luck, DougC Okay...This sounds very promising. How fat is this blade, if you need to thin it? I don't see the blank on the SSS website anywhere - did you have to call and ask? How wide is the Burwell rear? I want three things: 1. All black 2. Front post half the width of the notch. I don't care if it's .150" and .115" .... or .130" and .100" 3. Rounds landing at the top of the front sight at 25 yards. This shouldn't be so hard. Does everyone just jump straight to adjustable F.O. sights on these things? I didn't realize I was being so demanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 My un modified Burwell rear mikes out at 1.140 wide opening My front sight for 115gr loads that hit point of aim/point of impact at 35yds ( steel challenge) is as on gun, measures 1.225 high. My front sight for 147gr loads that hit point of aim/impact at 35yds(production load) is 1.236. Both sights are thinned down to .090 and I use a file to serrate the rear as well. I then degrease them, heat them up with a propane torch, then use cold blue on them. This is on a M&P 9L with a Storm lake barrel. Hope this helps! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Note on the Dawson Adjustable target and optic sights on the M&P 40... On Dawson's website AND Speed Shooter Specialties, they specify a 0.265" tall front sight to pair with the adjustable rear.... 0.265" is NOT tall enough!!! I have a call and email into Dawson on this and have notified Kenny as well... Same thing happened when they introduced the adjustable for the Glock 35... It too required a taller front site. IF you use a 0.265" as recommended, you will achieve the following: Mechanically zeroed rear sight will produce a near head shot POI with a POA at the "A" on a Metric USPSA target at 25 yards. IF you turn the rear sight as far down as absolutely possible, you can ALMOST get a POI/POA convergence at 25 yards... Personally, I want my pistol to be POA/POI dead on at 25 yards with the rear sight at mechanical zero in elevation and windage... or as close to it as possible... Speaking of windage... If you have the DP adjustable centered in the dove tail (using a caliper), and you have it mechanically zeroed, you won't be more than 1 click off in windage... that's cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I had some custom .330 front sights made from DP when I had the adjustable sights for my XD tactical....I eventually just put his fixed rear sight on it and then reduced the front sight down for 147gr loads and called it good. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 (edited) Well... if I still had the eyes for a non-optic front sight, I could do that Doug, but I NEED that FO front... And, I like to know that I can sight the gun in wherever I need it... and adjust for different loads... If it wasn't a competition gun, i'd probably figure out a fixed sight combo... Edited September 18, 2009 by cautery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Roger that, Clay. I will be there someday too! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 (edited) My un modified Burwell rear mikes out at 1.140 wide openingMy front sight for 115gr loads that hit point of aim/point of impact at 35yds ( steel challenge) is as on gun, measures 1.225 high. My front sight for 147gr loads that hit point of aim/impact at 35yds(production load) is 1.236. Both sights are thinned down to .090 and I use a file to serrate the rear as well. I then degrease them, heat them up with a propane torch, then use cold blue on them. This is on a M&P 9L with a Storm lake barrel. Hope this helps! DougC YOU ARE THE MAN! - Thanks so much for breaking out the caliper. ...Although I think you mean the sight is 0.225/0.236 ... I somewhat doubt you're using a sight more than an inch tall. I really like the Burwell rear. It looks like a great product - I really liked the Henie slantpro rear I used to run on the 34, and it looks like Burwell has incorporated a few of it's best features. Dawson's tallest front is .210" high. So it looks like the Dawson is out if I choose the Burwell rear, which I probably will. Whose front sight were you cutting up and serrating? The speedshooter specialties blank front that was previously mentioned? Edited September 18, 2009 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 (edited) Wait! Hallelujah! I can just cut this sucker down. A .100 front and a .140 rear should be just about what I'm looking for. I'll stick a burwell rear behind this, and get out the file until I like the front. I was going to duracoat the slide, so I'll just cut down the front and paint it black. http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDeta...099D-1231282302 Edited September 18, 2009 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revopop Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Not to hijack the thread, but who makes the thinnest front night sight for an M&P? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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