2010 LaRue Tactical Multi-Gun Match

[Scout454]

8.1.5 Knock down steel targets (i.e., poppers or steel) must fall to score. LuRue targets are steel. Ergo, they must fall to score.

I've never had a problem taking them down but then I don't bring white box ammo to a major match and expect it to preform.

In retrospect, we had the same problem at Superstition Mountain in 2004. I had no problem taking the LaRue's with 55's. The last couple of times I've shot at them at distance in the wind I simply loaded 77's for that stage.

I know I'm gonna catch sh*t for this question, but here goes......Last year had some question on scoring the Larue targets. Last year a hit didn't score, only a falling steel scored. The question was with the problem with the 30-40mph tail wind pushing up against the back of the popper/Larue targets. Kinda hard getting them down with a 223 55gr. unless you hit em in the forehead, multi-tap em, or shoot the tactical heavy class. Is a hit a hit or are they going to have to fall to score? Several guys I saw were hitting them dead center with no luck last year using a 223/5.56. Hopefully the wind won't be a factor this year but is there a calibration on the steels or how will the hit be score.

[noxcuse73]

8.1.5 Knock down steel targets (i.e., poppers or steel) must fall to score. LuRue targets are steel. Ergo, they must fall to score.

I've never had a problem taking them down but then I don't bring white box ammo to a major match and expect it to preform.

In retrospect, we had the same problem at Superstition Mountain in 2004. I had no problem taking the LaRue's with 55's. The last couple of times I've shot at them at distance in the wind I simply loaded 77's for that stage.

I know I'm gonna catch sh*t for this question, but here goes......Last year had some question on scoring the Larue targets. Last year a hit didn't score, only a falling steel scored. The question was with the problem with the 30-40mph tail wind pushing up against the back of the popper/Larue targets. Kinda hard getting them down with a 223 55gr. unless you hit em in the forehead, multi-tap em, or shoot the tactical heavy class. Is a hit a hit or are they going to have to fall to score? Several guys I saw were hitting them dead center with no luck last year using a 223/5.56. Hopefully the wind won't be a factor this year but is there a calibration on the steels or how will the hit be score.

I used brown box xm193 at 3025fps out of my rifle with the 55fmj bt. and still had trouble with direct hits because of the extreme wind. Just another question that I'll probably catch crap for, but isn't changing ammo mid-stream in the match like ga#*ng? Just an observation. The debate started last year about setting up your rifle specifically for each match to suit the courses of fire for that match. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of finding out if your setup fits a wide range of your needs the way it is? I typically don't have a reason to change my setup "during a match" or before a match except if something breaks, including ammo. Well hey, it's just my opinion but I distinctly remember last year some of the mumbo-jumbo whammy-jammy setups specifically for this match didn't seem to work out for some. I guess I'll just triple tap everything on the outside edge of one of the top corners about 1 inch in and I shouldn't have any trouble, while blindfolded of course. LOL

[mrt53]

Stage diagrams will be published on May 10th.

[Scout454]

In the first place, it is a game and changing ammunition during the game is part of it. I build rifles. I have three that are set up as match rifles. All of them have 1 in 8 twist barrels and all of them will shoot 77's - with the same load. They are zeroed with 77's and then shot with 55's to see what the difference is in impact. For a match like LaRue, Ft. Benning, Blue Ridge or Rocky Mountain, I will bring enough 77's to shoot the entire match but I will also have 55's with me. It there are short stages (i.e., shots under 200 yards) I will use 55's loaded to M193 spec. If it's a mixed bag (in your face and out to 300 or more) I simply load 77's. For me, in all three rifles, 77's shoot 1/4 to 1/2 MOA out to 500 yards so it's a no brainer. The 55's I load are accurate too, but more like MOA. If you know ahead of time that a match will have long shots - and you don't reload - why not buy 200 Black Hills 75's or 77's, see where they shoot and bring them? I'll wager that a hit on a LaRue with one 77 is cheaper than three 55's. Oh, and changing ammunition during a match is hardly "changing your setup". They do it in the sandbox, every match I've shot that has shotgun stages has required shot - sometimes different sizes - and slugs and a lot of shooters will change shot size for long or tight shots or for heavy steel. What's the difference? One other thing - the only changes the major players make to their rifles for matches might be to change scopes for a match with predominately longer shots. And that's rare.

You pull that off blindfolded and I'll buy the beer!

I used brown box xm193 at 3025fps out of my rifle with the 55fmj bt. and still had trouble with direct hits because of the extreme wind. Just another question that I'll probably catch crap for, but isn't changing ammo mid-stream in the match like ga#*ng? Just an observation. The debate started last year about setting up your rifle specifically for each match to suit the courses of fire for that match. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of finding out if your setup fits a wide range of your needs the way it is? I typically don't have a reason to change my setup "during a match" or before a match except if something breaks, including ammo. Well hey, it's just my opinion but I distinctly remember last year some of the mumbo-jumbo whammy-jammy setups specifically for this match didn't seem to work out for some. I guess I'll just triple tap everything on the outside edge of one of the top corners about 1 inch in and I shouldn't have any trouble, while blindfolded of course. LOL

Edited February 17, 2010 by 00bullitt
fixed quote boxes

[noxcuse73]

In the first place, it is a game and changing ammunition during the game is part of it. I build rifles. I have three that are set up as match rifles. All of them have 1 in 8 twist barrels and all of them will shoot 77's - with the same load. They are zeroed with 77's and then shot with 55's to see what the difference is in impact. For a match like LaRue, Ft. Benning, Blue Ridge or Rocky Mountain, I will bring enough 77's to shoot the entire match but I will also have 55's with me. It there are short stages (i.e., shots under 200 yards) I will use 55's loaded to M193 spec. If it's a mixed bag (in your face and out to 300 or more) I simply load 77's. For me, in all three rifles, 77's shoot 1/4 to 1/2 MOA out to 500 yards so it's a no brainer. The 55's I load are accurate too, but more like MOA. If you know ahead of time that a match will have long shots - and you don't reload - why not buy 200 Black Hills 75's or 77's, see where they shoot and bring them? I'll wager that a hit on a LaRue with one 77 is cheaper than three 55's. Oh, and changing ammunition during a match is hardly "changing your setup". They do it in the sandbox, every match I've shot that has shotgun stages has required shot - sometimes different sizes - and slugs and a lot of shooters will change shot size for long or tight shots or for heavy steel. What's the difference? One other thing - the only changes the major players make to their rifles for matches might be to change scopes for a match with predominately longer shots. And that's rare.

You pull that off blindfolded and I'll buy the beer!

Golly I don't know why everybody gets sooooo worked up over a few simple questions. I build rifles also and my personal ones have 1-8 barrels on them also. Not you specifically, but despite what most of the guys claim, I see a LOT of setup changing prior to these matches. I know it doesn't make a lot of since to do so, but it still happens. And you're on for the beer!

I used brown box xm193 at 3025fps out of my rifle with the 55fmj bt. and still had trouble with direct hits because of the extreme wind. Just another question that I'll probably catch crap for, but isn't changing ammo mid-stream in the match like ga#*ng? Just an observation. The debate started last year about setting up your rifle specifically for each match to suit the courses of fire for that match. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of finding out if your setup fits a wide range of your needs the way it is? I typically don't have a reason to change my setup "during a match" or before a match except if something breaks, including ammo. Well hey, it's just my opinion but I distinctly remember last year some of the mumbo-jumbo whammy-jammy setups specifically for this match didn't seem to work out for some. I guess I'll just triple tap everything on the outside edge of one of the top corners about 1 inch in and I shouldn't have any trouble, while blindfolded of course. LOL

Edited February 17, 2010 by 00bullitt
fixed quote boxes

[Scout454]

No one is getting worked up and I asked Greg if he'd like me to answer some of these questions for him.

I'm retired and have the time.

I run a 3 Gun match.

I've been doing this for 25 years.

You're not the first person to ask this question and because of that, at every major match, the steel is all checked with 55's. No MD can control the weather and unless the wind happens to be blowing in his face the day he calibrates the steel there is no way to anticipate what *might* happen if the wind picks up from the wrong direction. Bigger, heavier bullets help you compensate for wind at distance. High power shooters will shoot 52's or 60's at 200 yards, 69's at 300 and 77's or 80's at 600 - just to buck the wind.

The only setup changing I've ever seen or heard of from the guys who all finish in the top 10 might be to go to a bigger scope for RM3G or BRM3G and I know most of them personally so you must travel with a different crowd.

Blindfolded, remember. And even if you miss, I'll buy the beer!

[TAMUJeep]

do we get to bring our own blindfold?

[mrt53]

If you do not have a blindfold no worry. Greg will poke your eyes out.

[SGDM]

You can change ammo if you want.

The steel must fall to score!

[SGDM]

Here is a shipping address if you need to send ammo...

LaRue 3 Gun

c/o -

9000 Bob Moore Road

Navasota, Tx 77868

[mrt53]

Here is a shipping address if you need to send ammo...

LaRue 3 Gun

c/o -

9000 Bob Moore Road

Navasota, Tx 77868

This is a good Fed-ex or U.P.S. address only. No mail.

[noxcuse73]

Fair enough on the steel. Nobody can predict the weather and wind conditions. That's what makes it challenging and fun. I'm just excited for it to be here. This is one awesome match and I can't wait! I'll have a fresh batch of "no-whiners" stickers for anyone who want's one. They are free, I just need to get a rough count of how many to bring. Scout454, I'll take you up on the beer just look for the blindfold.

Edited February 12, 2010 by noxcuse73

[Scout454]

You're on!

[JPshootah]

is there still openings for the match?

[jacspopo]

Im in for the "no whining" stickers, may I reserve 2? Alan Colley

[LChico]

is there still openings for the match?

Been full - have started a waiting list

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 LaRue Tactical 3 Gun Statistician

[B_Ayers]

I will take 4 or 6 of the no whiners stickers please.......if it is not any trouble. I would even throw in a few bucks to help cover some of the printing costs...... I got a couple of guys I would love to get with those things @ our home club..

[Scout454]

I'll tell you what, save a few of the No Whiner stickers for me and I'll bring a case of good stuff from the local micro brewery.

Fair enough on the steel. Nobody can predict the weather and wind conditions. That's what makes it challenging and fun. I'm just excited for it to be here. This is one awesome match and I can't wait! I'll have a fresh batch of "no-whiners" stickers for anyone who want's one. They are free, I just need to get a rough count of how many to bring. Scout454, I'll take you up on the beer just look for the blindfold.

[2alphas]

I would appreciate a couple of the 'no whiners' as well.

TC

[superfly]

I will take a few of the no whiners thanks Mark .

[noxcuse73]

I'm working on a deal with one of the match organizers for a special "no whiners" Larue Multigun 2010 run of stickers for match attendees only. I will also probably have a small run of the standard "no whiners" stickers at the match that will just have the logo only without the Larue 2010 on them to offer to guys that want to take them back to their home clubs. I obviously can't make 1000 of them and hand them out for free, but I will do the best I can to have quite a few of the plain ones to hand out. I need to iron out the details with the match organizers before I flood the match with them. Trying to do a little something different and special for the match. The idea is to offer the one of the special run stickers to each of the attending shooters for free but details will follow. Thanks for the interest. I will do my best to make it happen.

[Scout454]

If you need money for the stickers, ask. I expect everyone whose posting here would chip in.

[mos2111]

Id love a "No Whiners" - I ll be the guy carrying everything on his back trooper class style.

[noxcuse73]

Thanks for the offer scout. Still trying to get with MRT53 about the Larue version of the stickers so I know how to proceed with printing them. One way or the other I will have quite a few with me. Our squad will be clearly marked with them for recognition. Thanks guys. Like I said I'll keep everyone posted. I currently have requests for about 100 of them so far.

[Scout454]

If you're looking for permission, PM Greg or call Mark at the shop.