lugnut Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) Not giving someone a procedural penalty when their toe is visible from behind cover is quite a bit different than letting someone run with full hi caps. +1 I've seen people get called for cover when I knew damn well they were fine. Unless you are 100% certain cover is broken then don't say a word. I agree that the rules are the rules but I honestly get tired of hearing "COVER!" ten thousand times at a match (and I'm not talking about to me!)... half of which are a baby toe exposed at most. It the hardest to accurately enforce. The others are very clear... you download, don't slice the pie, etc, etc... PE. Edited August 22, 2009 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 There is a simple solution. Your club needs to follow the rule book. They are rules not suggestions. Otherwise you really aren't shooting an IDPA match at all. That's it right there... it's why we don't pick and choose rules even at a club level. It doesn't matter if it's IDPA or USPSA. This crap always starts with a couple minor things, but then where does it stop? Nope, follow them all or you are no longer shooting IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero_down Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Very simple, squad up with him next time and call him on all the infractions. He will either get embarassed in front of his buddies for the "cheating" and start playing by the rules or just stop shooting at your club, which it sounds like its what you really want anyway. Play by the rules, all the rules. I can understand new shooters getting warned for breaking cover but warn them only once and then start penalizing. Chances are, since they are new shooters then really don't care about scores anyway. Once they start caring about how they place, I guarantee they'll start thinking about penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Christian Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 +1 to what Zero Down said. If you have the standing in your club that you have stated, and are a certified SO, you should have no problem SOing his squad. Watch him shoot... call him fairly... but firmly... and let him know that you have "eyes on him". You do sound highly competitive... and there's not a darned thing wrong with that... I exhibit the same traits and can't fault them in another shooter. Maybe he just needs a dose of the Rule Book to bring him back into the fold. Chris Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlywon Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Thanks for all the replies, well at least the constructive ones. ON a side note some of you guys really hate IDPA! (trust me, I have a lot of things about it that I either despise or disagree with on even a practical life level, like banning round counting...But I won't go there) I am also shooting USPSA a lot more and plan on going to some major matches once I get more used to it. With that said. Chills, thanks for the message, and also the cool videos! I do have to say that I don't fully understand your post. I have not said where I live nor do I plan on doing it. My goal is not "outing this guy" on some internet forum or slandering his name. I was just looking for the best course of action to take and looking so shooters to get it. Perhaps I gave you too many details, but I wanted to give it to you in context. I'd like to ask you guys a question. Has this not been a least a somewhat healthy way to discuss how to deal with conflict in a match? THere at many of you following this to (learn, argue, whatever?) see what is posted. Next: Today I shot a non-IDPA match and my IDPA Match director was there too. We talked about the email it and he agrees that we just need to sit the whole club down and go over the basic rules and expectations once again. He also knows that this guy likes to take some major liberties in his shooting. I also talked with a friend who said he has confronted the guy before for not following the rules and he just blew it off. I want to reiterate that I am not just accusing this guy out of thin air, it is based on a lot of experience. There is simply no way he gained 7+ seconds on me in a 4 short, stage match, when I had a good match. Especially when I have been beating him by 5-10 Seconds for over 2 years! My decision as of now: I have decided that I will let the match director do his thing. If nothing changes, I will shoot with him. If he cheats I will point it out to him. Who knows what will happen then? Edited August 23, 2009 by grizzlywon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I'll send you another PM, grizzlywon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pittbug Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Next: Today I shot a non-IDPA match and my IDPA Match director was there too. We talked about the email it and he agrees that we just need to sit the whole club down and go over the basic rules and expectations once again. He also knows that this guy likes to take some major liberties in his shooting. I also talked with a friend who said he has confronted the guy before for not following the rules and he just blew it off. I want to reiterate that I am not just accusing this guy out of thin air, it is based on a lot of experience. There is simply no way he gained 7+ seconds on me in a 4 short, stage match, when I had a good match. Especially when I have been beating him by 5-10 Seconds for over 2 years! My decision as of now: I have decided that I will let the match director do his thing. If nothing changes, I will shoot with him. If he cheats I will point it out to him. Who knows what will happen then? I think this is a very good option, kudos to you and to the match director for initiating this. At one of our local matches we had a guy who blew off some of the rules, he was a military veteran and kept saying loudly that he was not worried about his score and that he just wanted to shoot it his way. We told him that he can shoot it whichever way he wants but his scoresheet will still be marked per IDPA rules. We marked down every PE he earned. Whether a shooter accidentally or intentionally earns a PE or FTDR, it still should be marked down. The point I'm trying to make here, is that new shooters and visitors from other clubs are watching not just the shooter, but how the SOs handle themselves, and therefore how the club is run. Shooters don't have to follow the rules, but SOs should. I don't think it's healthy for a club to have local favorites or blatant disregard for the rules. What if some of those are safety rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Grizzlywon: Sounds like a good plan of action. I have never shot IDPA, but I can't imagine shooting without following the rules. As an RO in USPSA, I understand the importance of evenly applying the rules to all participants. I think you will find an even application of the rules at USPSA matches, at least in my 5 years I have. Free your mind, good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Christian Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 As a IDPA SO, and veteran shooter (SSP MA... EX in SSR, CDP, ESP) I can tell you that the CSO will set the tone for the squad. If the CSO is a POS... then that's what you'll get from that squad. I cut new shooters a reasonable amount of slack during their FIRST match... and explain to them what they did wrong that I did not penalize them for. Beyond that, subsequent matches, the Rules get enforced. SOs are the ambassadors for the sport. If the SO is a Range Nazi he will turn off new shooters and they won't become repeat shooters. If he is too lenient, then every gamer in the group will want to shoot on that squad. It can be a "fine line" to walk... but an important one... at least in club matches.... Sanctioned Marches are a different story... Rules enforced fairly, fimly & consistently. If the CSO on the squad that the original post referred to is not doing his job... and letting a "buddy" play fast and loose with the rules... that SO needs to surrender his Red Hat. Chris Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 There is simply no way he gained 7+ seconds on me in a 4 short, stage match, when I had a good match. Especially when I have been beating him by 5-10 Seconds for over 2 years! If this is your only evidence that he cheated, best quit while you are ahead. It is entirely possible for you to feel like you did well and somebody else really do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 This seems to have been covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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