grizzlywon

"I'm always careful to discard the used rice where birds won't eat it. " Rice sounds like the way to go. Sounds like it will also help get rid of the pesky birds and varmints from the yard too! Thanks for the tip!

Duane, it says "The Ice Magwell is the fastest, easiest, most consistent magwell for IDPA and IPSC competition." On the search page it says IDPA approved. (bottom right) http://glockstore.com/index/388/?&page...=&filter_4= Also the picture of the insert at the bottom of the page is not the one they sent me. Obviously the one in the pic is brass. But mine was black and didn't have the long pointy end. It was just rounded off.

Chills, it's still way under the weight limit.

If you have read threads about this in the past it was decided that the Dawson Ice magwell was not legal for even ESP in IDPA. This was due to the brass insert. I just ordered one with the intent to have an instert machined out of steel. When I sent it to my friend he told me that it was steel. (He also made me one out of tool steel that will be a little heavier and harder!) I just got off the phone with Dawson and they said that over this summer, they switched the insert to steel! Here is where I ordered: http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/7470_...h_val%3Dmagwell Notice that it states on this page that it is IDPA legal! Bout time! And yet, i measured it and it will fit in the box.

Not to argue or anything, but why didn't the course description just say, "both hands on the cards." It just said hold in the cards.

Strick, where does the rulebook state how fast you have to move? (just read it and it says nothing about speed, just how far you can move in a match) I have been at two state matches where shooters were moving and the SO's were telling them to "move" (move faster). I think I agree with you, that moving is moving, and should be viewed that way. But once again its how I have been judged at matches and it's something that I would like to see improved so that there is more consistency. Chris, I have no doubt that I could have double tapped the targets like you did, but wanted to stay true to how I have been judged in the past at large matches. I love IDPA, just wish they would get rid of some of these "subjective" terms/rules. I'd like them to say, movement is movement, do not tell a shooter to speed up if they are moving, no matter how slow. As long as they don't stop. One SO says 1mph is moving. another says 3mph is moving and one mph is not fast enough. I think if there is any movement they are moving, whether it is .01mph or 10! It the course is designed well, it will be an advantage to at least move quickly to the next position. Just my two cents.

Chris, in my club and the others I have shot at (state matches) you would have at least got a warning for not moving fast enough from P1 to cover. I am not trying to castigate anyone, just pointing out some stuff that as a Master level competitor didn't make since or wasn't consistent with the last 4 years I have shot IDPA, that's all. Still haven't heard about table games yet.

So I got the Ice Magwell the other day and mailed the insert to a friend who has a machine shop. Asked him to make me one out of steel. He called me today and told me that the insert is steel! Anyway, he is making me one out of machined steel so it will be heavier anyway. I couldn't tell if it was brass or steel as it was painted black. It's weird too, because it is listed on the site I bought it from, as IDPA approved. http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/7470_...h_val%3Dmagwell Now I'm just looking for some good mag extensions so my mags lock

You didn't have to shoot them while moving. The stage procedure gives you the option to go straight to cover and shoot them from cover. To me this would be the preferred way to shoot it. My point was that it is the only way to shoot it. Unless your draw is .5 with concealment and the SO's let you inch your way to cover, they can't be shot on the move. Well, maybe one shot?

I see what you are saying, but why not make the wall longer? solves the problem and doesn't make a difference even compared to a stage with barrels.

Just shot the Postal match and have to say a few things. First off, I am very grateful for the postal match. I think it is a great way to have a national match with no extra cost to shooters. I think USPSA should have one too! But I have a hunch neither one of these assosiations will ever admit they can learn anything from each other. Oh well. The stages this year were good, but were a little odd. All of the targets were laid out to be 4'-3.5' tall! We were shooting the floor of our range all night. What was this year a "little person" shoot? I don't get it. Most targets I have shot are about 5-6' to the top. Secondly on stage 1, "Table Games" the CO states, Started seated with gun holstered holding cards (a deck of cards). http://www.idpa.com/09PostalMatch/Postal09.pdf I wanted to start with cards in my left hand and my right hand on my gun. But was told I couldn't. So i asked if I could start the same way with my hand over the gun and was told no. This vagueness in the description makes me mad. I know that other clubs will shoot this differently and this is just simply stupid to not be more detailed in such a match. IDPA is famous for being so ridged and yet they leave the door wide open on this stage. All they had to say was both hands holding cards over table. Another really weird stage was stage 2 where there was a all black hardcover target that as far as I could tell had absolutely no purpose whatsoever! I helped set up the stage and the target was useless. It didn't obstruct the view of any target. And if you used barrels it was not needed? Weird! One more thing about this stage and the "table games" one too. It kept calling for Tactical sequence. Even when the targets were staggered and it would make more sense to shoot the closest one twice and then the next furthest and so on. Usually when we shoot Tactical sequence, the targets are at the same distance away from the shooter, not staggered, otherwise you shoot them in tactical priority. This isn't just our club because we shoot stages that come from all over the country. Our Pres does a good job using other clubs stages and this was different. Is this going to become the rule? This is not a big deal, just kind of weird once again. I'd like to see some more consistency on this. Lastly on stage 3 you start out 2' from cover facing up range. On signal you turn and draw and engage targets two targets while on the move to cover or from behind cover. While on the move to cover 2' away! By the time I turned around (I pivoted on my left foot) I ended up basically behind cover. In major IDPA matches the SO's love to yell at you even if you are moving. Moving depends on whatever they feel like. In my experience, 1mph is not fast enough, but about 3+mph is OKAY? Depends on the SO. To me moving is moving. I understand some clubs are indoor and very limited in how wide the stages can be, but 2' just doesn't make since! Especially if you are going to say "while on the move." How about 2 yards and you can shoot two targets while getting to cover if you are a decent shooter. Just a thought. I am sure the 2' cause many shooters to stop or move really slow once again causing inconsistency. Once again this isn't meant to be a bash on IDPA, I love IDPA. I also love the idea of the Postal match. I'd just like to see these improvements made and then the USPSA do its own postal match. (hint: change the name, so they won't know you are copying them)

Lugnut, I couldn't have said it better. The point of this post was not to ask the question of whether or not a Magwell is a good choice for competition. I would say, if it were not an advantage, then there would not be a "Enhanced" division that allows it. And gee golly, USPSA has a similar rule in the Production VS. Limited division (I see a pattern here!). So once and for all, it you don't think a magwell will speed up your reloads or gun, then don't put one on your gun. But as far as the repetition from people over and over again (at least implying they are pointless) is getting old. It's kind of like when people have posted a question about their Glock wanting other Glock shooters to help them out and some wise guy hijacks the post and says, something along the lines of, "Well then buy a real gun...a 1911 and all of your wildest dreams will come true!" We are here as I see it, to help each other out and have constructive answers. At least that's why I am here. I have spent just a few hours with a wagwell and have already seen how I can nail 1.15-1.50 reloads consistently. Without it a good reload is about 1.60. But with the 1.60 speeds and no magwell, there are 2+ ones when you miss it. To me, it is worth it!

B. Add-on weights for a competitive advantage (this includes, but is not limited to, weighted magazines, tungsten guide rods, brass magazine wells, weighted grips)." Is the ICE a brass Magwell? I would say no, its not although it does have a small part that is in the grip that is brass. But once again, we are dealing with a vague rulebook. Like I said, I plan on removing all the brass parts so this is not a game of semantics.

I agree. What is the point of a weight limit? I weighed my 35 and it comes out to be 1lbs.13.8OZ. Add a 2.9 oz magwell and I am still about 10.3 oz below the limit! That's almost 25% below the max. I wish I could afford a 9mm STI. Oh well, I love my Glocks anyway. At some matches, they do the equipment check first. In this case I don't see why they wouldn't allow me to change out the magwell to a plastic one if worst came to worst (it would take about 1min). Now if it is checked later in the match, I would have to plead my case. I think I will get a plastic magwell (borrow one from a friend) and get the insert made of something else. Does anyone know if the $29 plastic one has a plug that would switch out and work on the ICE? One more thing, its kinda jacked to call someone a cheater when the IDPA rule book says nothing about "no brass" magwells. From my best assessment, they are considering a magwell a type of grip. I don't agree with this and it doesn't specify that in the book either. Another thing, it says you can't add grips that are more than an ounce more than the originals. Glocks don't have add on grips (unless you consider a sleeve one), so once again it is too vague. One of you hit the nail on the head earlier in the this thread, basically saying that if the rules are too vague, it leaves too much open for interpretation and leaves a shooter open to traveling for days on end, spending hundreds of dollars to be told, "you are not in compliance with our vague rules so now you can get a DNF and go home!" I am not for cheating, but I will take advantage of any loopholes I see in a rule book. that's what competitive people do. Like I said, for ESP, let people do whatever they want to the grips/mags as long as it is under the weight and fits in the box. Otherwise get rid of the ESP class.

Has this changed? If you go to a GSSF match you can shoot any powerfactor? I have shot around 115 PF messing around and it knocks popers down. I would probably want to be up around 120 just for a little more insurance. Also, will they send you home for shooing lead in a factory barrel? Just wondering.

As I see it, for us IDPA guys, we need to petition Dawson to make a plug that is Steel. Or make one ourselves and sell them for $10-15? I have a friend who is a machinist and will ask him if he will make me one up. I plan on using this magwell this fall at my state cup.

Thanks for all the replies, well at least the constructive ones. ON a side note some of you guys really hate IDPA! (trust me, I have a lot of things about it that I either despise or disagree with on even a practical life level, like banning round counting...But I won't go there) I am also shooting USPSA a lot more and plan on going to some major matches once I get more used to it. With that said. Chills, thanks for the message, and also the cool videos! I do have to say that I don't fully understand your post. I have not said where I live nor do I plan on doing it. My goal is not "outing this guy" on some internet forum or slandering his name. I was just looking for the best course of action to take and looking so shooters to get it. Perhaps I gave you too many details, but I wanted to give it to you in context. I'd like to ask you guys a question. Has this not been a least a somewhat healthy way to discuss how to deal with conflict in a match? THere at many of you following this to (learn, argue, whatever?) see what is posted. Next: Today I shot a non-IDPA match and my IDPA Match director was there too. We talked about the email it and he agrees that we just need to sit the whole club down and go over the basic rules and expectations once again. He also knows that this guy likes to take some major liberties in his shooting. I also talked with a friend who said he has confronted the guy before for not following the rules and he just blew it off. I want to reiterate that I am not just accusing this guy out of thin air, it is based on a lot of experience. There is simply no way he gained 7+ seconds on me in a 4 short, stage match, when I had a good match. Especially when I have been beating him by 5-10 Seconds for over 2 years! My decision as of now: I have decided that I will let the match director do his thing. If nothing changes, I will shoot with him. If he cheats I will point it out to him. Who knows what will happen then?

I have been shooting a local match every month for about 4 years. I have become an SSP master after endless hours of practice at the range and in the garage. The match I shoot is very loose to say the least. Most of us don't wear cover and we are not real quick to hand out procedurals either but many of us do go to the state match and we try to hold people to the basic rules of our club. (using cover, correct reloads, approved gear etc.) I usually end up SO'ing and will usually warn the new shooters that if they go to a big match that they will be penalized if they do "that." The next time I ding them. I just want to get them prepared. The more advanced shooter get dinged with no warning. (we know better) Needlesss to day, I have been first or second in our matches for about 2+ years without exceptoin. I end up second when a great shooter, (a top Grand Master in USPSA) shows up. This last week The scores came out and I was 7 second behind an Expert who I have been whooping for over 2 years now by about 5-10+ second in 4 stages every match! This guy is a a law enforcement guy who is known for being a real piece of work. (no offense to any law enforcement guys, trust me, you would not want to associate yourself with this guy!) I am a very competitive guy with a real sense of wanting to see justice served. So when the scores came, I was mad. To add to the anger, I have seen this guy shoot stages with hi-cap mags full, ignoring cover, reloads and tactical order. I have a feeling that, that is what he did to gain so much time. He must have skipped the 5 reloads in our match and ignored cover. I have razed him before for cheating, but though to myself, "he is cheating and still can't beat me!" I have also complained to our Club director at least with little comments. Another point to complicate this is that he also SO's with a bunch of other law enforcement guys on his squad and like I said, they all kind of do their own thing (which many times include shooting how they want). When I got the results, I ended up sending our Club director an email explaing some of this and my disappointment. It's been about 4 days and I have not heard back from him. My guess is that he doesn't want to deal with it. Have you guys had any similar experiences and what do you think I should do? Some of my ideas 1. Shoot in his squad so I can see what's going on. 2. Confront him on it. Thanks

For the guys who think you can't speed up a gun. You are just being argumentative. That's like saying that we should all be shooting stock guns, because an open gun is just a bunch of fancy crap added to no avail. Secondly you who keep telling me that I just need to practice more have no idea how much I practice, nor do you have a clue about how you would do shooting against me. I have been shooting IDPA competitively for 4 years and practicing more than anyone else I shoot with, with the exception of one friend (who took 6th overall in production at the USPSA Nationals). From what I have seen on most of these forums are guys that run their mouths a lot faster than their guns and who's egos are almost as big as their guts! So please don't treat me like a novice shooter, I assure you that I am not. When it comes to IDPA I'd put my money where my mouth is against most of you in a match any day. Thirdly, I came here for some practical help on how to make the best ESP gun and all I get is a few guys telling me that I am stupid and that I should just shoot ESP with an SSP gun. Great advice! NOT! Fourthly, I have listened to your remarks about the alloy frame and am now really not big on the idea. But I have contacted a few guys from here who are running them and like them. Maybe they just know a little about how to make a gun run with reloads. Probably more then the naysayers who don't even own one but love to bash them. Fifthly, some of you keep saying that a magwell is pointless. WTH, if they didn't speed up your reloads, no one would ever bother putting one on their gun! Even if it is one or two reloads, in an IDPA match per stage that is still time off my score. Lets say they shave of .1 sec on a reload. .1x 10 reloads in a match is 1 sec. I have lost and won matches by .1, that is just not a good argument even if a magwell is less effective in IDPA than one in USPSA. So until someone has something constructive and intelligent to say, save it. For those who want to help a guy out and others on this forum and, the questions I still have are. 1. Anyone know of an all SS magwell that will fit in the IDPA box? (one that doesn't have a brass instert that would make it illegal, like the ICE?) Ive seen the glockmister, (but it's not SS). Or the Novak one, NHO (is this one SS?). Can't find this one even on their site or with an internet search. Other companies that make a SS one that will fit in the box? 2. How about a SS guide rod that is non captive an the right length?

I'm already doing this in SSP. I'd like to do more! just found the posts you are talking about. looks like the smartest thing to do in ESP would be a SS Magwell and a SS guide rod. Do you guys know of a legal Magwell? I know the Ice isn't legal due to the brass plug?

A brink of a frame. That is like saying that every guy out there using an STI 1911 frame is stupid and slow. Great reasoning, but not accurate.

What can you add to a Glock that is going to make you any faster in ESP? I already mentioned three things! A magwell for one.

I bet you would regret it. Search the forum and you'll find loads of complaints. The complaints that I saw were people complaining about factory loads beating their guns up and the buffer that was supposed to help with this. I won't have that problem with 125PF. Another question. Anybody know how hard this alloy is? I know I will have to remove some metal from the frame to get it in the weight range. This also leads me to bleieve that only a plastic magwell will work as a metal one would put us way over on weight. That is if there is a magwell that fits. I will go ahead and email the manufacture and post their reply here.

Why not just stay in SSP at that rate? Isn't the whole point of ESP to be able to enhance your gun a little? I'd like to speed my gun up a bit.

I have a G35 and want to know what my best chances are for making the best ESP gun for IDPA out of it. I was thinking: -Alloy frame. -SS guide rod. -SS magwell. What is your experience and what magwells will even fit the alloy frame. Or can you even put a magwell on the alloy frame and keep it under weight. What about a plastic magwell. I've also noticed that the alloy frames don't have the typical channel in the back of the grip where most magwells mount. Thanks in advance.