Best Production Autopistol?

[spd522]

Bit of a thread drift but if it's a factory Glock adjustable, the best solution is to just replace it. Lots of great fixed sights but if you want adjustable, Dawson is tough to beat.

Craig

[oldtrooper]

Bit of a thread drift but if it's a factory Glock adjustable, the best solution is to just replace it. Lots of great fixed sights but if you want adjustable, Dawson is tough to beat.

Craig

Craig is correct, I was thinking of making the one that came on the Glock work. I have the Dawson adjustable on more than one of my Glocks and they are superb. They are easy to install as they fit the factory dovetail.

Oldtrooper

[motorcycle_dan]

Craig is correct, Dawson adjustable are superb.

Will that be Okay for NRA AP Production rules? Since it came with factory adjustable sights I can replace 'em with Dawson's?

[oldtrooper]

Craig is correct, Dawson adjustable are superb.

Will that be Okay for NRA AP Production rules? Since it came with factory adjustable sights I can replace 'em with Dawson's?

It is my understanding that original sights can be replaced with similar sights as long as they will fit the factory dovetail. They do have to be notch and post type sights however, no ghost type sights, etc.

[1911vm]

A little disappointing they didnt address the trigger pull weight. It looks like the below was changed and "internal" was taken out.

"The firearm shall have no visible external modifications except as follows"

DWFan.

Here is the 2010 NRA AP Production Rule: 3.2.1 Production:

I personally have learned from competitors NOT to monkey with the rules too much, that is what we are doing. These NRA AP Rules have not even really been tested yet! They were put into effect last Jan 2009, we had less then 30 Production competitors at the Bianchi Cup, while not perfect these rules need to be tried, before we start changing them.

We all know that there is a price to pay for adjusting trigger weights, we need to do everything we can to make the Production Firearm and even playing field, we can not make a Production Revolver & Production Semi Auto Division, we do not have the numbers to justify that. In a perfect world we would like to split Production 3 ways, Semi-Auto, Revolver & Single-Stack, with the amount of people shooting and holding matches, we can't do it.

Shooters in the field need to run and shoot these matches, we will build it and support you in any way that we can, but we can not run matches at the local level. The more people that shoot and want to shoot, will give us justification for change, we can not change for a small group, and we can not change the rules every year either.

3.2.1 Production Firearm - The intent of this rule is to encourage the use of Production Firearms as manufactured and promote NRA Action Pistol Shooting and the “Grass Roots” level. Accordingly, in order to keep this class from becoming and “Equipment Match” Single Action only pistols are prohibited”.

A Production Firearm is a semi-automatic handgun or revolver which is or has been a catalogue item readily available to the general public equipped with factory notch & post sights. All standard safety features of guns must operate properly. The firearm shall have no visible external modifications except as follows:

a)Grips may be replaced or modified to fit a competitors hand or facilitate loading. Checkering, stippling, grip tape and sleeves are permitted.

Barrel length may not exceed 5.35 inches for semi automatic pistols and may not exceed 6 inches for revolvers.

c) Wide "target" style hammers and triggers, if included on the firearm as originally manufactured are permitted.

d) Only open sights may be used. The front sight must be a non-adjustable post sight. The rear sight may be adjustable if the firearm was originally manufactured with an adjustable sight. Sights may be replaced but they must use the original dovetail cuts and must retain the original configuration of the firearm. Fiber optic sights are permitted.

e)Barrels may be replaced with original factory barrels with the same configuration of the original barrel.

f)All production firearms must fire the first shot of every stage double action.

g) Trigger weight may not be less than 3.5 lbs. in any mode.

h) External finishes, either protective or decorative and other non-functional embellishments (such as engraving, inlays or inscriptions) are permitted.

I) Holsters must be designated for carry and suitable for everyday use.

The following firearm modifications are prohibited.

a)Single action only firearms.

b)Custom-shop firearms.

c) Changes in the original factory sight configuration of the firearm, front adjustable sights.

d) Peep, ghost, optical, electronic, Bo-Mar and Aristocrat type sights.

e) Thumb rests, grip or magazine extensions.

f) Compensators or ported, weighted barrels.

g) Competition, Race Type and Open Front Holsters are prohibited.

Happy Holidyas!

Tom...

so the big ??? for me is does NRA consider XD singil or double action.

[Alan550]

The XD, like the GLOCK is considered double-action.

Alan~^~

[1911vm]

The XD, like the GLOCK is considered double-action.

Alan~^~

thanks becose IDPA considers it a sin. actiom

[Ahab]

I did get a chance to talk to Tom from NRA a week ago to get some answers on a few of the burning questions for Production Division. A few items like Performance Center guns were addressed, as well as NRA's committment to keeping this sport growing. I finally tested the pull weight on my 686SSR and 627 Pro, and both guns in their factory configurations have single action triggers that break at 4lbs. Now to get them the patented Gun Nuts Action Job (aka 5000 dryfires) and we'll be good to go.

[motorcycle_dan]

I have an XD and purchased a G34 for the production class. The XD has fixed sights so adjustable sights are not allowed to be inserted as aftermarket. Since the G34 comes with adjustable sights you can install aftermarket adjustable sights. Going to pick my G34 with Dawson sights today at lunch.

Came very close to using a revolver. Still may in the future. I have difficulty shooting weak hand double action with the revolver.

Need to practice draw from Blade Tech and switch to weak hand. I can't seem to keep it consistent. Any ideas?

[Trader]

I did get a chance to talk to Tom from NRA a week ago to get some answers on a few of the burning questions for Production Division. A few items like Performance Center guns were addressed, as well as NRA's committment to keeping this sport growing. I finally tested the pull weight on my 686SSR and 627 Pro, and both guns in their factory configurations have single action triggers that break at 4lbs. Now to get them the patented Gun Nuts Action Job (aka 5000 dryfires) and we'll be good to go.

Are you using a spring scale? You should measure picking dead weight , thats how they will do it at the cup. My brand new 686SSR

would not pick 3lbs and my old 686 barely picks 2 lbs. Both would be DQed at the cup.

[1911vm]

I have an XD and purchased a G34 for the production class. The XD has fixed sights so adjustable sights are not allowed to be inserted as aftermarket. Since the G34 comes with adjustable sights you can install aftermarket adjustable sights. Going to pick my G34 with Dawson sights today at lunch.

Came very close to using a revolver. Still may in the future. I have difficulty shooting weak hand double action with the revolver.

Need to practice draw from Blade Tech and switch to weak hand. I can't seem to keep it consistent. Any ideas?

I think I am going to use a M&P Pro My XD trigger is set at about 1 ½ lb and I do not want to re do it back the way it was.

As far as ideas I will give you the same answer that a good friend gave me (he is very good shooter sponsored by a major manufacturer) get more ammo and go to the range LOL good luck.

[Ahab]

Are you using a spring scale? You should measure picking dead weight , thats how they will do it at the cup. My brand new 686SSR would not pick 3lbs and my old 686 barely picks 2 lbs. Both would be DQed at the cup.

Yeah, they do use a dead weight at the Cup. Sadly, all I have available is a spring scale which shows about 4 lbs on the SSR. I guess I'll have to rig up something with my weights. Also, they wouldn't be DQ'd, you'd just have to shoot in Metallic division instead of Production division.

[czrunner]

I did get a chance to talk to Tom from NRA a week ago to get some answers on a few of the burning questions for Production Division. A few items like Performance Center guns were addressed, as well as NRA's committment to keeping this sport growing. I finally tested the pull weight on my 686SSR and 627 Pro, and both guns in their factory configurations have single action triggers that break at 4lbs. Now to get them the patented Gun Nuts Action Job (aka 5000 dryfires) and we'll be good to go.

[czrunner]

I did get a chance to talk to Tom from NRA a week ago to get some answers on a few of the burning questions for Production Division. A few items like Performance Center guns were addressed, as well as NRA's committment to keeping this sport growing. I finally tested the pull weight on my 686SSR and 627 Pro, and both guns in their factory configurations have single action triggers that break at 4lbs. Now to get them the patented Gun Nuts Action Job (aka 5000 dryfires) and we'll be good to go.

NRA Bianchi Cup Production Division rules clarification

Posted on January 28, 2010 by Caleb

There has been some discussion of the Production Division rules for NRA’s Bianchi Cup at the Brian Enos Forums that I’ve been periphrially involved in. A lot of it centers around the trigger pull weight, holsters, approved guns, etc. I called Tom Hughes, NRA’s Action Pistol director yesterday to get some clarification on the rules. So straight from the top, here is what we got from Tom.

The second question is “what about Performance Center guns” – i.e. are they eligible for Production Division? The answer to this is “yes and no”. Because the Performance Center guns are catalog items available to the wide public, some of them are eligible for Production Division; however because some of the PC guns are clearly designed as “competition only” guns, those would be ineligible. The example Tom used was to look at the Performance Center 627 guns. There are several models of 627 available in the Smith and Wesson Performance Center catalog. This model is a vanilla 627. It has a five inch barrel, standard iron sights, and no “competition only” touches. This model would most likely be fine in Production Division.

___________________________

I have a Stock PC 627 (vanilla) with a 4 lb trigger with no weights/ comps or a full lug barrel, just stock. I want to use this because this is what I own. Now to me with the new production rules I can change all the parts on the inside of a glock and be fine, but some say a Performance Center SW falls under the "Custom Shop" gun rule. PC guns are available off the shelf, to me custom shop is a special order gun to the customer spec's that you can't go to the local gun store and buy.

Having said this, "most likely be fine in production" really is bothering me. I don't want to train and shoot for months for this match and it be to "most likely be fine in production"

Tom can you confirm this

Thanks

Edited February 16, 2010 by czrunner

[9146gt]

I did get a chance to talk to Tom from NRA a week ago to get some answers on a few of the burning questions for Production Division. A few items like Performance Center guns were addressed, as well as NRA's committment to keeping this sport growing. I finally tested the pull weight on my 686SSR and 627 Pro, and both guns in their factory configurations have single action triggers that break at 4lbs. Now to get them the patented Gun Nuts Action Job (aka 5000 dryfires) and we'll be good to go.

NRA Bianchi Cup Production Division rules clarification

Posted on January 28, 2010 by Caleb

There has been some discussion of the Production Division rules for NRA’s Bianchi Cup at the Brian Enos Forums that I’ve been periphrially involved in. A lot of it centers around the trigger pull weight, holsters, approved guns, etc. I called Tom Hughes, NRA’s Action Pistol director yesterday to get some clarification on the rules. So straight from the top, here is what we got from Tom.

The second question is “what about Performance Center guns” – i.e. are they eligible for Production Division? The answer to this is “yes and no”. Because the Performance Center guns are catalog items available to the wide public, some of them are eligible for Production Division; however because some of the PC guns are clearly designed as “competition only” guns, those would be ineligible. The example Tom used was to look at the Performance Center 627 guns. There are several models of 627 available in the Smith and Wesson Performance Center catalog. This model is a vanilla 627. It has a five inch barrel, standard iron sights, and no “competition only” touches. This model would most likely be fine in Production Division.

___________________________

I have a Stock PC 627 (vanilla) with a 4 lb trigger with no weights/ comps or a full lug barrel, just stock. I want to use this because this is what I own. Now to me with the new production rules I can change all the parts on the inside of a glock and be fine, but some say a Performance Center SW falls under the "Custom Shop" gun rule. PC guns are available off the shelf, to me custom shop is a special order gun to the customer spec's that you can't go to the local gun store and buy.

Having said this, "most likely be fine in production" really is bothering me. I don't want to train and shoot for months for this match and it be to "most likely be fine in production"

Tom can you confirm this

Thanks

It would be nice to get a yes or no answer on this ... as I think it also applies to S&W PC autos also.

Tom Johansen