MustangGreg66 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 So I've been reloading for my bolt gun for a few years and just recently got an AR. I used to do all the works to my brass, trim, debur, primer hole deburr, neck size... and it's a pain. I'm looking at loading up a bunch of ammo for shooting at the range, plinking and maybe some 3-gun (havn't decided if I want to get into the sport yet). I'm looking at getting either some MG 55fmj or Hornaday 55gr FMJ and loading those up. What I have for brass is some very nice once shot (through my Rem700) Winchester brass and then a separate bucket of once shot by me - Miwal factory reloads... this has LC, Rem, FC, some winchester.... shot through a mini-14 and some bolt gun. I've always been accuracy oriented, but at the same time, lazy. haha. So I'm wondering how much I should process this brass for accuracy with the intended bullet. I know it's not going to shoot like a sierra matchking bullet so is all the normal processing necessary and does it have a payoff? To the main question. Should I short out the brass by headstamp? Should I sort the LC by year? I came accross soem LC match 308 that was given to me by a buddy that was all from '85. Pretty impressive I thought. Does the .223 LC brass vary by year? Worth sorting into lots? I'm planning on FL sizing all this brass and I'll probably trim it, but I'm not sure about primer pocket deburring since I found that to be the most PITA... Also thinking about getting a Gracy case trimmer for that operation, currently using a foster unit with a power adapter, but have to neck deburr separatly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 At the most: - Trim the brass - Remove any primer pocket crimp (LC brass) - Load it and go! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) Like Rich said.. Some people chamfer inside/out an swear by it. I don't never had an issue. You might try both ways.. see what works for you. The more work you do on the brass, probably the better, just depends if it buys YOU anything. I do sort to an extent, all the military brass together, and the commercial stuff by itself - but that's it. It makes the press feel more consistent. EDI: I can't spell Edited August 4, 2009 by BerKim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Like Rich said..Some people chamfer inside/out an swear by it. I don't never had an issue. You might try both ways.. see what works for you. The RCBS triple cutter for the case trimmer works awesome. Trim, and Chamfer in/out in one step. The only sorting I do is crimped and not crimped, as I run all the crimped brass through a Dillon Super Swage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 After shooting the last couple of months to 1k, 300-500 yards at a 3-Gun match is NOTHING! On my 308 loads for 1k, I do a good amount of prep. I've got the routine down to 50 rounds (loaded) in 2 hours with virgin brass. You can chamfer if you want, but honestly, a 2-3 MOA rifle is good enough in 3-Gun. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Morcillo Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I don't normally seperate brass by headstamp when shooting 3gun. MOA accuracy isn't a factor whenn shooting at 9 inch plates at 200 yards. But, I did notice when reloading the other day, a big difference in powder capacity between manufacturers. When looking into the case mouth after powder drop I could see a difference in the powder level. It wasn't powder measure, they were all 25.0 gr. So, there is a difference in performance with case capacity, but not enough for short yardage plate shooting. Oh, use small base dies to resize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Oh, use small base dies to resize. Mike brings up a good point. Because of it being an AR, I like using small base dies. FWIW, Dillon's standard dies are small base dies. A gauge from JP and Dillon are both good investments. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangGreg66 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 small base dies... hmm. I have Foster dies and Lee dies, would either of those happen to be considered small base dies? are small base dies marked as such? Is the only diffrence in the FL die or the crimp die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 So "small base dies" are the ones made early in the production run where the tolerances are the tightest....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 So "small base dies" are the ones made early in the production run where the tolerances are the tightest....? No Merlin, they'd be the last ones in the run, when the cutters are worn most. Bullets early in the run are the small ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsaxdog Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 there's something about LC brass in .223 that's alot more accurate, haven't really experimented w/it in .308. i'm sure there's a million answers here about why......but, the case capacity is very different between different brands, w/LC seeming to have the most. I do @25 grs. of varget, and if i try to put that in and american eagle federal case, or one of the brit 'radway green' cases, it'll probably flow out the top, and i seat 75 hornadys in the LC cases fine, so...it's also interesting to weigh the cases, and you'll see a big difference, and correspondingly w/ case capacity. i use LC for accurate stuff, everything else for the 50 yd. blasting stages, cause' pretty much everything will give enough accuracy there. YMMV..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 At the most:- Trim the brass - Remove any primer pocket crimp (LC brass) - Load it and go! Rich that's exactly what I do for mixed headstamp and mil surp once fired brass. 24 gr AA2230 over winchester small rifle primers with MG or Hornady 55gr FMJ is enough for 1" groups @ 100yds (consistently) from prone with an eotech. that's good enough for me. -jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangGreg66 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 At the most:- Trim the brass - Remove any primer pocket crimp (LC brass) - Load it and go! Rich that's exactly what I do for mixed headstamp and mil surp once fired brass. 24 gr AA2230 over winchester small rifle primers with MG or Hornady 55gr FMJ is enough for 1" groups @ 100yds (consistently) from prone with an eotech. that's good enough for me. -jared That looks to be a simple enough process, 1" groups at 100 yards with only an eotech sounds pretty impressive, are you magnifying it? What barrel are you running that load through? I took a sample of a few handfulls today and I've got brass from '94-'01 with a few older, even a couple from 89 and 68! Sure is a mixed bag. I've even got a few comercial FC and Rem in there. I guess I'll sort out the comercial brass, but just from a couple handfulls, sorting by years seems quite tedious. I was thinking what can their consistency be like year to year on the LC brass, but then thought about it and it's not marked lot by lot so even within a given year I've got all sorts of lots mixed in made on diffrent machines and .... on and on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Doing the above, I'm on average at .5 MOA. With my 18" 1:8 barrel, I'm occasionally at .25-.3. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrissel Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 If you don't want to sort and process you can always buy it already done. I just got 500 from Top Brass. www.scharch.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Use scarch... and make your life easy. If I don't sort the brass I average sub moa (.75ish on average) with my 55gr blaster ammo (h335 and a hornaday 55). The groups did get better when I tried sorting the brass by manufacturer. But for the type shots I need to make in the 3gun/tac carbine matches I shoot (10" plates inside 400 yards) there was not enough gain to justify the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangGreg66 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Use scarch... and make your life easy.If I don't sort the brass I average sub moa (.75ish on average) with my 55gr blaster ammo (h335 and a hornaday 55). The groups did get better when I tried sorting the brass by manufacturer. But for the type shots I need to make in the 3gun/tac carbine matches I shoot (10" plates inside 400 yards) there was not enough gain to justify the effort. Wow, that's all better accuracy than I'm getting with factory match ammo, maybe I need to work on my technique a little. Then again I'm shooting a 16" carbine... I just finished media polishing/cleaning half a costco bleach bucket full of LC brass so I think I'll continue my processing since I've started. Took me 2 days of emptying and refilling the tumbler every 2 hours to finish... haha. Anyway, that's what I was thinking of shooting, H335 and 55s from Hornady or GM, what's your load Caspian guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 that's exactly what I do for mixed headstamp and mil surp once fired brass. 24 gr AA2230 over winchester small rifle primers with MG or Hornady 55gr FMJ is enough for 1" groups @ 100yds (consistently) from prone with an eotech. that's good enough for me. -jared That looks to be a simple enough process, 1" groups at 100 yards with only an eotech sounds pretty impressive, are you magnifying it? What barrel are you running that load through? S&W VTAC, 16" carbine, 1 in 7 twist. should probably amend my post to say 1" groups @ 100yds when i do my part i've certainly got the occasional trigger spasm in there, but it's consistent enough for me to be happy with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Then again I'm shooting a 16" carbine... Anyway, that's what I was thinking of shooting, H335 and 55s from Hornady or GM, what's your load Caspian guy?Greg A 16" barrel is no reason for poor accuracy in a scoped rifle. My 2 primary ar's have 16" (noveske) and 18" (saber defense) barrels. The load is nothing special, 24.7 grains of h335 with a Hornaday 55 which gives me plenty of margin above the power factor floor. My OAL is a bit longer than the normal max oal since I am using hk mags that allow that. Edited August 7, 2009 by caspian guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangGreg66 Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 Ah yea, I've got a 16" YHM upper. My first 5 shots the other day went into a very nice 3/4" cluster... but then I must have lost my mojo because the next groups were around 2"... It has a fairly thin barrel so maybe it was more a matter of the gun heating up. I've got some gunshow reloads on 55gr bullets that went around 2" but it loves match loads with 52gr Sierras, I bet it'd love the 69gr sierra too, but I just can't afford to shoot match bullets all the time. If I could get 1" groups out of 55gr hornaday reloads I'd be very happy. I'll have to order some of those... and get workin on my brass... I think I'll just sort out the comercial stuff and load in lots of LC. I was going to process the whole bucketfull at once, but maybe I'm better off just processing a couple handfulls and using them til they split or look worn out. About how many loads do you guys get through your LC before you toss it? Thanks for sharing your load Caspian guy. I just looked on the Hogdon website and interestingly enough the only data they have 55gr FMJ is a reduced load using Clays and titegroup 55 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .224" 2.200" 3.1 1064 4,000 CUP 55 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon Clays .224" 2.200" 3.2 1060 3,700 CUP Weird huh? Those are max loads from their site btw and they don't list a min. I've used bluedot for reduced loads in .223 but never thought to try clays or titegroup... Don't think it'd do to well out of an AR either... anyway way off topic, but I just throught I'd share that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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