Spray_N_Prey Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Well how should I approach this? the guy is a really new shooter (2nd match) and has enough problems (gun falling apart in the match). But he is using a nail belt to put the mags in. I was talking to him at another match that I was not RO'ing at and he was telling me what a great mag holder this nail pouch is and said he doesn't know why more people haven't thought about this. he looked at my CR Speeds and said i bet it will hold up better than those plastic things. I just couldn't say anything, really I just couldn't. I know the rules regarding this, 5.2.4 but damn I just couldn't say anything, no really I couldn't. SO what point do you just look at someone and say "yes that makes a nice mag pouch" and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Local match, no harm - no foul, I guess. I shot my first couple matches with one double mag pouch and mags my back pocket. But he really should be made aware of the rules, shouldn't he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spray_N_Prey Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 I was going to try and say something but his gun fell apart after the first stage and he got pissed because his gun fell apart and he left. But I didn't think I would be able to convince him that those plastic POS CR Speeds would be better than that awesome nail bag. I mean 1 nail bag would hold all of his mags and those CR Speed's only hold one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I guess I'd chose nail bag over stuffing them in my belt... Then maybe... NO, I wouldn't. LOL Local match? Suggest he read the rules about pouches and gear, and WHEN HE CAN, make adjustments. Rules are rules, enforced or not. JeffWard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 but his gun fell apart after the first stage and he got pissed because his gun fell apart and he left. You wouldn't, by chance, have a YouTube video of this, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wideload Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Leave the new guy in peace. If he thinks he has figured a better way to haul his magzines and he doesn't want your advice, let him be. By your description he's got other things to fix first, like bringing a gun that does not autodestruct. So back to the questionable mag pouch. He will figure that one out when he has to shoot a long course that requires him to sprint half way across the field and leaves a trail of full magazines along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Well how should I approach this? the guy is a really new shooter (2nd match) and has enough problems (gun falling apart in the match). But he is using a nail belt to put the mags in. I was talking to him at another match that I was not RO'ing at and he was telling me what a great mag holder this nail pouch is and said he doesn't know why more people haven't thought about this. he looked at my CR Speeds and said i bet it will hold up better than those plastic things. I just couldn't say anything, really I just couldn't. I know the rules regarding this, 5.2.4 but damn I just couldn't say anything, no really I couldn't. SO what point do you just look at someone and say "yes that makes a nice mag pouch" and move on. Who's to say it wasn't a leather mag holder that doubled as a nail pouch? If he gets serious about the game, he'll figure it out. If not, it doesn't seem like he's posing any safety hazard, nor is he gaining any competitive advantage. Seems to me this is where you take the broadest possible interpretation of the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UW Mitch Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Some people show up thinking they've innovated, but in truth they're a little embarassed that they didn't show up with the gear the cool kids are using. He'll either see the light, understand the rules, or give up the game. Do your best for the first two to happen and not the last one. BTW, I use a nail belt when I shoot trap - it hold 25 shells perfectly. I don't know what the "real" trap shooters with the nice vests and cool pouches think about my nail belt...I just keep showing up with it! ~Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 New shooter...local match... That doesn't really matter. If they are shooting for score, they need to follow the same rules as everybody else. [/preaching mode off] That said, I'd say that...once you put a nail pouch on a gun belt, it becomes a gun related pouch. I don't think I'd bust him on: 5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor’s belt and specifically designed for that purpose. A competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in his pockets and retrieve and use them without penalty once having dropped or exhausted his primary magazines. As long as he is actually using the dump pouch (and there are specific gun related dump pouches out there) for the whole of the match...and not just on a stage that has all the mags on on the table, for instance...then I think he'd be legal. Slow as h3LL, but legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clown Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) flex beat me to the table start comment. Edited July 1, 2009 by clown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spray_N_Prey Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 well that's why I just couldn't say anything. The guy came with one of those "general purpose" gun holsters that can be adjusted for like EVERY GUN MADE!! but it had a retention strap, which I told him he had to use, and he's probably in his 60's and just getting into guns and I didn't want to sound like a range nazi and make his time unenjoyable. Most people think i'm a dick anyway when i'm RO'ing because I follow the rules and most ppl in a local match don't like that. and he's got one of these S&W guns that holds 8 rounds of 9mm (not SS) and has to have an empty magazine for the hammer to drop and he didn't understand why he couldn't just drop the decocker and it was just like I wasn't trying to be an ass but I was the one that told him about the rentention strap AND having to drop the hammer and just thought if I told him that the mag pouch thing wasn't really legal, he would think I was trying to pick on him or something and I don't want to run off new shooters, exactly the opposite, I try to help and retain new shooters. the whole thing is i'm helping run a local match that has been notorious over the years of not following the rules (think IDPA stages being billed as USPSA - not because of the newest MD, but others that just didn't know better) and i'm working with the latest MD in hopes of getting the matches to be considered descent matches that shooters will enjoy coming back to. I just don't want to preach about how the clubs making a 180 from how they use to be and then have somebody say something like "well they still don't follow the rules and let people wear nail pouches as mag holders, etc.." it's kinda of fine line on following the rules and running off some new shooters that might have really got into the sport or badmouth the sport in general to other potentially new shooters or pissing off shooters that know and follow the rules to help a new guy out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spray_N_Prey Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think I liked this sport better when I wasn't an RO and just had to show up and shoot instead of always being the "rule guy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Sounds like you are fighting the good fight. That is why shooter's meetings, orientations, new shooter briefings, etc. are all such a good idea. We probably need more of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think I liked this sport better when I wasn't an RO and just had to show up and shoot instead of always being the "rule guy". Being the "Rules Guy" can be quite an opportunity to improve the quality of the matches though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wideload Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Get your match director and the club's officers out of their back yard, and shoot at other clubs. Have them exerience how other clubs run and see if they get any ideas for elevating the shooting at your club. Get them to sign up for larger matches... Area 3 still has open slots. Bet its also not too late to sign up for MO fall classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshF Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I think I liked this sport better when I wasn't an RO and just had to show up and shoot instead of always being the "rule guy". Shawn, I'm with you on that. I'm one of a handful of RO's that have actually gone to the class in our area. I spent a year as Pistol Director for a fairly large club just outside KC. Talk about being the bad guy. Quite a few people didn't approve of my strict following of the rules for stages/equipment. However I always explained that I wasn't doing it as a power trip or cause I'm trying to be an ass. I was doing it for the good of the sport and allow everyone to always have a consistent experience that would also prepare shooters for larger matches should they decide to attend. If you take the right approach though and talk to those same people they usually understand at a minimum and some even appreciated the input after I explained it was constructive in nature and not meant to be negative. For the issue you described I usually had new shooters with blatantly illegal equipment shoot Limited or Open class which they were fine with. Most just wanted to come out and shoot anyway. BTW, At least you've never had to DQ your Dad. Talk about a crappy position to be in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) This year I stepped up and am the President, MD, RM, RO and Mr. Fixit for our local club and it is very stressful, I know why guys get burned out now. The only thing is that if we don't step up and take charge, our sport will die off. I would enjoy shooting a lot more if I did not have so many hats on but I want our sport to continue, so this is the sacrafice that I am willing to make. Edited July 2, 2009 by danscrapbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Not sure that mags in that bag will pass the distance from the belt test. We have had a few folks show up with weird things complaining that "real" equipment was too expensive. I point them toward Uncle Mike's gear. $20 for a Kydex holster and another $20 for a couple double mag pouches and they are on their way. Heck, my 3-Gun holster and pouches are still Uncle Mike's. They work. Although now that I am headed to the dark side the holster will probably have to change. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 BTW, At least you've never had to DQ your Dad. Talk about a crappy position to be in Damn! That's cold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 This year I stepped up and am the President, MD, RM, RO and Mr. Fixit for our local club and it is very stressful, I know why guys get burned out now. The only thing is that if we don't step up and take charge, our sport will die off. I would enjoy shooting a lot more if I did not have so many hats on but I want our sport to continue, so this is the sacrafice that I am willing to make. Start recruiting people for all those positions that you mentioned. Be sure to tell them you need help to put on quality matches and then...be sure to ASK then to help. And, thank them more often than they need to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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