holstering a loaded 1911

[Spray_N_Prey]

Ok had an incident yesterday and wanted to see if I handled it right.

Had a right handed shooter (been shooting for 6-8 months and has taken a class or two from a GM) get up on the line to shoot high standards, which requires 2 strings. I was on the left side and the CRO of the stage was on the right side (side of gun). I watched him put his magazine in, then flick the safety up and back down and holster is what I thought I saw. The RO started the course pretty quick after that. I was sure what I saw but since the COF started before I could be sure, nothing happened.

string 2. I watched again and this time said "stop", walked over to the right side of the shooter said safety and took my hand down to verify that the safety wasn't on and click it up and then back down and proceeded to ask the shooter to UASC, etc... and then issued a DQ and explained why.

The shooter didn't take it very well and it became a BIG DEAL, the shooter said that I took his safety off and then DQ'd him for it. the guy that was running the video (who is also an RO). came over and explained that he saw it too when it happened and probably has it on video.

I told the shooter what had happened and after the fact, someone said that I didn't do it correctly, that I should have had the shooter unholster his gun and verify the safety was on / off. I didn't want the gun to be out of the holster, should I have checked the safety or asked the shooter to?

Please help.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Spray_N_Prey

[ima45dv8]

If I suspected the safety was off (and I had this situation with a competitor recently that resulted in a DQ), I wouldn't ask the shooter to unholster the gun. I wouldn't want them handling it in that condition.

You did fine. Shooter needs to accept the responsibility for their unsafe act and learn from it.

[Aristotle]

I really don't think I would have been touching his gun. Unless the competitor was losing control I would leave my hands off of him, but stay within arms length to make sure I was able to control his actions if need be.

I would have issued a stop, then walked to his gun side and had him hold his hands up in the air as I inspect his guns ready status. If the safety was off, I would point it out, and issue the ULSC command. Then explain what I saw and the rules code.

[Spray_N_Prey]

I really don't think I would have been touching his gun. Unless the competitor was losing control I would leave my hands off of him, but stay within arms length to make sure I was able to control his actions if need be.

I would have issued a stop, then walked to his gun side and had him hold his hands up in the air as I inspect his guns ready status. If the safety was off, I would point it out, and issue the ULSC command. Then explain what I saw and the rules code.

That's what I did, I said Stop, and walked to his right side and said "safety" and reached down to verify the safety being off, I know some custom guns have a safety that doesn't move much, I wanted to verify that the safety was NOT on. The thumb safety was flush with the grips, but I still wanted to check it. the gun didn't come out of the holster when I checked the safety. It had a right side safety lever that I flicked.

When we were talking after he cooled off, we went to the safety area and found out his grip safety was off and that he had the lightest trigger pull i've ever seen on a 1911.

[sfinney]

The DQ was the right thing. But I would not have touched or operated his gun for him. If the safety was bad, or as hair trigger as you say, what if it discharged in the holster and shot him in the leg,when you worked the safety? BAD liability issues there. Make him handle his own gun.

[Spray_N_Prey]

so you would ask the shooter to check his own safety, right. I would just thought that you wouldn't want the shooter to handle it. But if that's the way it should be then I will be educated next time. That's why I love this place, like someone said, it's Dry-Fire practice for RO's.

Thank you guys,

Shawn G.

[Flexmoney]

No way should you touch a shooter's loaded gun while it is in their holster.

What if the shooter has a trigger that follows when the safety is applied? YOU just shot him in the leg/foot.

*Crude warning*

Touching another man's gun is like touching his dick. I can't speak for anybody else on the forum, but don't expect a kiss if you start handling my piece.

Good eye and good call, just work on the tactics.

[Aristotle]

Yes, it was a good call, and good eye for that sort of thing.

But as was said, I would never poke/prod at a loaded handgun that was not under my direct control.

Keep in mind, in our sport, there are a lot of "tinkerer's".

Edited June 22, 2009 by Aristotle

[UW Mitch]

we went to the safety area and found out his grip safety was off and that he had the lightest trigger pull i've ever seen on a 1911.

Confirmation that it was a dicey situation at best. Good observation on the thumbsafety not being engaged.

~Mitch

[ima45dv8]

If the safety was bad, or as hair trigger as you say, what if it discharged in the holster and shot him in the leg,when you worked the safety? BAD liability issues there. Make him handle his own gun.

I hadn't considered that. Thankfully this infraction happens rarely and I've only encountered it 2-3 times in almost 10 years.

I'm still not comfortable with asking someone to unholster a gun that doesn't have the safety activited, but I'm now less comfortable with touching the safety myself.

[Gary Stevens]

I believe I would have stopped the shooter, made a visual inspection of what I thought I had seen, perhaps having also viewed by another RO. After confirming one way or the other if the safety was off, I would inform him of the situation, and ask him to carefully lift the gun out of the holster, while facing downrange, and ULASC.

After that do the paperwork.

You have already confirmed the safety is off, if the shooter handles his/her gun, and something happens it is his responsibility.

I would not have touched his gun in this situation though.

[George Jones]

It was a 1911.... the only way to make sure that gun will not go off with the safety OFF is to block the hammer so it cannot strike the firing pin.

I would never move a safety lever on a loaded 1911 (or other single action autoloader) in the holster without blocking the hammer.

There are way too many Dremels on home workbenches....

[Fireant]

If the safety was bad, or as hair trigger as you say, what if it discharged in the holster and shot him in the leg,when you worked the safety? BAD liability issues there. Make him handle his own gun.

I hadn't considered that. Thankfully this infraction happens rarely and I've only encountered it 2-3 times in almost 10 years.

I'm still not comfortable with asking someone to unholster a gun that doesn't have the safety activited, but I'm now less comfortable with touching the safety myself.

It's funny how many RO's don't realize that this is a DQ action. I had a guy shooting with me recently that told me he shot at this one club for 6-8 matches before someone told him he had to decock his gun before holstering since he was shooting production. Notice that they have let him shoot 6-8 matches holstering a double action gun in single action mode

[Shootingirons45]

Not sure what I can add to this other than to say that one way to have confirmed that the safety was off was to have stopped the shooter and asked him/her to raise their arms and then view the weapons condition. That way you'll avoid the whole touching issue and there'd be no doubt that it was the Shooter at fault.