Steel Case Or Not In My Brand New ARs ?

[Lead-Head]

I like cheap ammo. I have shot a lot of wolf and had few problems. I have had, and seen with others, some cases stick in some rifles. This was due to case being out of spec, not laquer. Not a big deal in practice, but I do not use it in matches. It can be a little underpowered, but that is per the chrono, and usually has no problems cycling in my rifles.

I have moved on to buying only cheap brass ammo ($289/1000) which is what I shoot in matches. I don't practice enough to warrant shooting 2 different types of ammo. When I do practice it is usually at longer ranges, so I need to be shooting the same ammo I would be using in the match to determine my holds.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Lead-Head

[SinistralRifleman]

I think its probably OK out of 5.56mm chrome lined barrels. Don't expect reliability out of non-chromelined.

The biggest problems with it are when the chamber gets hot and a round (lacquer or polymer coated) is left to cool in the chamber, it usually ends up stuck.

I have one gun that I'll use it in occasionally for training, and I clean the chamber thoroughly afterwards

Edited January 27, 2012 by SinistralRifleman

[P.E. Kelley]

I find it odd that I have been shooting steel cased 223/5.56 for two years without issue, of course I am not shooting the bargain basement stuff.

Colt is now offering a "competition rifle" complete with Test Targets....all shot with, yep... gun ruining steel cased ammo!

Before I started shooting the Hornady Steel Match I did some "Lab tests" to see about case sticking issues. In controlled heating tests using just the case,

as was able to hit 425F before any discoloration occurred. At many points up until 450F I would wipe the case with w Q-Tip to see if it would stick...nope!

I did not go beyond 450F. Perhaps I will later but for the last 7,000 rounds down range at matches across the country I have been more than pleased.

Steel Cased ammo from Hornday is great!

That is what I KNOW

Patrick

[johoevasmatrix]

I was talking to a guy at the range that has put a few ar's together and he told me to try and get a replacement bolt for my at and it should do fine running steel. My thoughts are pay $70 for a new bolt and run steel at about $250 a k or stick with the bolt I have and run brass at 350 a k I'm just in this because I really like to shoot. I reload because I like to shoot. I have not gotten into reloading 223 because of the price of steel. I am not shooting more than 100 yds. If I go to the range and go through 600 rds in an hour. I might of hit my target 30% of the time but I will go home with a smile on my face. Bad day of shooting beats a good day at work

[mpeltier]

I don't use it. Some report good results with it, but there are many others who just put up with it for the sake of a perceived savings. Many friends and fellow shooters fall into that group. If you reload and use a bit of care you can make excellant ammo for dirt cheap if you are resource full enough to get free brass or reuse your brass. Following are some current pricing from a known source who has competitive pricing.

Per 20 rds

Hornady steel 55 fmjbt $6.88

Federal 55 fmjbt $6.22

PMC 55 fmjbt. $5.60

Tula steel 55 fmjbt. $4.60

My reloads. $2.97

[P.E. Kelley]

BE Thread on Steel Case

I understand the cost factor, steel vs. load your own, but please don't lump Hornady Steel Match into the same group as the "other" steel cased stuff.

Kelly Neal uses it. Check the thread Link.

Trapr Swonson says Hornady Steel Match is the ONLY steel approved for use by JP in his rifles. Again in thread link.

You don't gotta believe me but I have been running the stuff for two years in both 223 and 308 without ONE SINGLE issue.

As always your results may vary, but what you are hearing from me is factual not internet BS. Again this is with Hornady ammo.

Patrick

[Miker]

I tried Hornady steel match 75gr in my JP rifle after calling JP and getting being told they are great/fine and wouldnt hurt the rifle I found them to be accurate and pretty close to the same impact point as my PMC 55gr. but very dirty they gummed my rifle bolt up with only about 35 rounds Ive never had this problem with brass no matter how many rounds fired maybe its just my rifle as many seem to really like it.

BE Thread on Steel Case

I understand the cost factor, steel vs. load your own, but please don't lump Hornady Steel Match into the same group as the "other" steel cased stuff.

Kelly Neal uses it. Check the thread Link.

Trapr Swonson says Hornady Steel Match is the ONLY steel approved for use by JP in his rifles. Again in thread link.

You don't gotta believe me but I have been running the stuff for two years in both 223 and 308 without ONE SINGLE issue.

As always your results may vary, but what you are hearing from me is factual not internet BS. Again this is with Hornady ammo.

Patrick

[mpeltier]

BE Thread on Steel Case

I understand the cost factor, steel vs. load your own, but please don't lump Hornady Steel Match into the same group as the "other" steel cased stuff.

Kelly Neal uses it. Check the thread Link.

Trapr Swonson says Hornady Steel Match is the ONLY steel approved for use by JP in his rifles. Again in thread link.

You don't gotta believe me but I have been running the stuff for two years in both 223 and 308 without ONE SINGLE issue.

As always your results may vary, but what you are hearing from me is factual not internet BS. Again this is with Hornady ammo.

Patrick

How can you not lump it in there. This thread is about cost, not Hornady vs wolf. I have no doubt the Hornady would be superior to wolf in the accuracy/velocity department, but for over $2.00 a box cost differance one would expect that.) My point is there are good brass case alternatives (that shoot pretty darn good) for a better price than Hornady. As well as re loading.

Where does Hornady get the steel cases anyway? Do they have a way of making them work better than the other steel case ammo makers?

I am basing this on experiances and observations as well, not internet BS.I just don't see the advantage if its not about cost what's it about?

[Religious Shooter]

How long does it take to process your own brass and reload? I would think:

Pick 1000 cases off the ground (.5-1 hours)

Clean 1000 cases (put in tumbler, take out of tumbler and take out media from brass) (1 hour)

Set Up press for trimming (check cases for headspace, trim length, etc.) (.5-1 hr)

Trim/size 1000 cases (including lubing) (1-3 hours)

Clean 1000 cases (put in tumbler, take out of tumbler and take out media from brass) (1 hour)

Fill up primer tubes (.5-1 hour)

Set up press for loading (check OAL length, set up powder, etc.) (.5 hours)

Reload 1000 rounds (1-3 hours)

Mic/Check and package rounds (2-4 hours)

8-15.5 hours for 1000 rounds?

$2.97*50 = $148.50

$230 (Russian) - $148.50 = $81.50 savings

If you are fast and can reload 1000 rounds in 8 hours you are paying yourself $10.19/hour.

If you are slow and reload 1000 rounds in 15.5 hours you are paying yourself $5.26/hour.

I'm on the slow side. If a match will let me, I'll use Russian for the close targets.

[mpeltier]

How long does it take to process your own brass and reload? I would think:

Pick 1000 cases off the ground (.5-1 hours)

Clean 1000 cases (put in tumbler, take out of tumbler and take out media from brass) (1 hour)

Set Up press for trimming (check cases for headspace, trim length, etc.) (.5-1 hr)

Trim/size 1000 cases (including lubing) (1-3 hours)

Clean 1000 cases (put in tumbler, take out of tumbler and take out media from brass) (1 hour)

Fill up primer tubes (.5-1 hour)

Set up press for loading (check OAL length, set up powder, etc.) (.5 hours)

Reload 1000 rounds (1-3 hours)

Mic/Check and package rounds (2-4 hours)

8-15.5 hours for 1000 rounds?

$2.97*50 = $148.50

$230 (Russian) - $148.50 = $81.50 savings

If you are fast and can reload 1000 rounds in 8 hours you are paying yourself $10.19/hour.

If you are slow and reload 1000 rounds in 15.5 hours you are paying yourself $5.26/hour.

I'm on the slow side. If a match will let me, I'll use Russian for the close targets.

Thats a contention that has some validity. To process and load 3,000 rounds takes me about 8 hrs. And it would be properly compared to Black hills blue box at $12.00 per 20 not Russian steel case.my reloads provide me with accuracy results that far exceed the Russian stuff and generally about 1/2"at 100 yds.Reloading is not for everyone though.The Hornady steel case seems very accurate by the test targets in the photo above.

[Religious Shooter]

8 hrs is all that it takes you to process and load 3,000 rounds?

Wow!

[P.E. Kelley]

BE Thread on Steel Case

I understand the cost factor, steel vs. load your own, but please don't lump Hornady Steel Match into the same group as the "other" steel cased stuff.

Kelly Neal uses it. Check the thread Link.

Trapr Swonson says Hornady Steel Match is the ONLY steel approved for use by JP in his rifles. Again in thread link.

You don't gotta believe me but I have been running the stuff for two years in both 223 and 308 without ONE SINGLE issue.

As always your results may vary, but what you are hearing from me is factual not internet BS. Again this is with Hornady ammo.

Patrick

How can you not lump it in there. This thread is about cost, not Hornady vs wolf. I have no doubt the Hornady would be superior to wolf in the accuracy/velocity department, but for over $2.00 a box cost differance one would expect that.) My point is there are good brass case alternatives (that shoot pretty darn good) for a better price than Hornady. As well as re loading.

Where does Hornady get the steel cases anyway? Do they have a way of making them work better than the other steel case ammo makers?

I am basing this on experiances and observations as well, not internet BS.I just don't see the advantage if its not about cost what's it about?

Actually the opening post stated that he did not want to screw his guns up. (using steel cased ammo)

To that all I have said is in MY experience the Hornady Steel Match has not caused any problems.

Beyond that...yes...yes handloads are wonderful and are less expensive in actual out of pocket costs and have the potential of being as accurate as any other quality product.

Patrick

[Alaskapopo]

How long does it take to process your own brass and reload? I would think:

Pick 1000 cases off the ground (.5-1 hours)

Clean 1000 cases (put in tumbler, take out of tumbler and take out media from brass) (1 hour)

Set Up press for trimming (check cases for headspace, trim length, etc.) (.5-1 hr)

Trim/size 1000 cases (including lubing) (1-3 hours)

Clean 1000 cases (put in tumbler, take out of tumbler and take out media from brass) (1 hour)

Fill up primer tubes (.5-1 hour)

Set up press for loading (check OAL length, set up powder, etc.) (.5 hours)

Reload 1000 rounds (1-3 hours)

Mic/Check and package rounds (2-4 hours)

8-15.5 hours for 1000 rounds?

$2.97*50 = $148.50

$230 (Russian) - $148.50 = $81.50 savings

If you are fast and can reload 1000 rounds in 8 hours you are paying yourself $10.19/hour.

If you are slow and reload 1000 rounds in 15.5 hours you are paying yourself $5.26/hour.

I'm on the slow side. If a match will let me, I'll use Russian for the close targets.

I can load about 400 rounds an hour in 5.56 on my dillon 550. I don't count the time in the tumbler because it works all by itself. I put the brass in over night and in the mornging its fine. I don't mic/check the rounds other than after setting up the press as I am getting ready. Packaging I use ammo cans. Just dump them in. I take more time on the long range stuff with deburring the cases and what not but its still not as much time as your saying. All my negative experience with steel in Ar's is from Wolf. I am sure the Hornady stuff is a world better.

Pat

Edited January 30, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[Religious Shooter]

400 rounds in an hour in a 550? That's with pre-processed brass right?

The tumbling and cleaning 1000 rds doesn't include the time in the tumbler. It's just putting it in and taking it out of the tumbler and dumping out the media from the cases. I tumble two-three times. The 1) initial cleaning, 2) getting rid of the lube and 3) (ocasionally) tumbling the loaded rds to vibrate out the primers from the loose pockets.

If you don't mic reloaded rounds you are asking for trouble.

[Religious Shooter]

Just to be clear. I reload using a Dillon Trimmer and a 650. Those times are what I experience.

[Alaskapopo]

400 rounds in an hour in a 550? That's with pre-processed brass right?

The tumbling and cleaning 1000 rds doesn't include the time in the tumbler. It's just putting it in and taking it out of the tumbler and dumping out the media from the cases. I tumble two-three times. The 1) initial cleaning, 2) getting rid of the lube and 3) (ocasionally) tumbling the loaded rds to vibrate out the primers from the loose pockets.

If you don't mic reloaded rounds you are asking for trouble.

I just fill the tumbler full and let it run all night and thats it. Just once. When it comes time to trim the brass I run it all through my dillon trimmer. I trim the brass every 3 firings for my range ammo. I don't mic each round and have not had a problem in 20 years now. Guess I am just lucky.

pat

Edited January 30, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[Religious Shooter]

That's weird. Other than cleaning I don't have any functioning problems with Wolf. With my reloads, out of 100 rds I probably set aside 3 rds as iffy and maybe .5 rds as outright bad.

Your the opposite. No problems at all with reloaded rounds. Some problems with Wolf.

[Vespid_Wasp]

I was talking to a guy at the range that has put a few ar's together and he told me to try and get a replacement bolt for my at and it should do fine running steel. My thoughts are pay $70 for a new bolt and run steel at about $250 a k or stick with the bolt I have and run brass at 350 a k

Why would you need to replace the bolt to shoot steel?

[MstngLX50]

I feel like everyone is skipping over steel cased ammos greatest virtue, it sticks to magnets. My favorite part of using steel cased ammo is being able to pick up my "brass" with a large wheeled magnet. Not having to dig around in the grass, in the dark with a headlamp is a big plus for me.

Hornady steel has been great ammo for me, I've shot about 3k in the past year or so without issue.

Really the only downside is for the junior service rifle shooters I was giving my brass to.

[Alaskapopo]

That's weird. Other than cleaning I don't have any functioning problems with Wolf. With my reloads, out of 100 rds I probably set aside 3 rds as iffy and maybe .5 rds as outright bad.

Your the opposite. No problems at all with reloaded rounds. Some problems with Wolf.

What is your chamber specs? .223 wyld, .223 or 5.56.

Pat

[Religious Shooter]

The current upper I use the Wolf on has a Nordic (Wilson) 16" with MGS. I believe it has a Wylde chamber. Prior to that I was using Wolf on a J&T and DPMS barrels. Don't know what type of chamber those had.

I currently don't use Wolf in any of my other uppers --- which are Wylde (JP) and ??? (DTI and DPMS barrels).

[johoevasmatrix]

On my ar my extractor pulls the rim off the steel cases and leaves it jammed in the chamber. He said not to replace the whole bolt carrier just replacing the bolt would take care of that problem. Now I'm not very wise with these matters but if I get the replacement bolt and it works then great. Of not then I'm just out the $70 bucks. Any other thoughts.