M1a Tips & Tricks

[R112mercer]

I recently purchased a barely used M1a, wood stock, NM 22" carbon steel barrel. Gun has very little wear, looks like some TRW guts. Trigger is nice, could always be nicer! I had some questions on keeping it happy:

What kind of lube? Oil or grease? I'm running Militec oil on it now but it looks like grease would work well.

What can I do to make the mag changes smoother? Not just mechanically but also technique. My mags are fairly new GI surplus Winchester mags.

Is there any value to some of the aftermarket parts, like the Sadlak gas pistons or spring guides? How about any handy tools for service?

Any other tips or tricks to get and keep it running smoothly would be great, thanks in advance, guys!

[bigbrowndog]

Kurt, should be on the road back from WYO, on his way home. He would be the best to describe the reload technique, it is fast and I like it for M1A's and have even showed it to Saiga shooters. Give him a day or 2 and he should post on the topic.

trapr

[Dan Sierpina]

Use grease on the bolt lugs and on the roller for the Op Rod. Keep the gas piston clean and the carbon out of the gas cylinder and the hollow end of the gas piston. You should find a kit at Champion's Choice or Creedmoor Sports.

Is it glass bedded? Is the gas system unitized?

You say the trigger is nice, what's nice? I was taught to keep them at 4 1/2 lbs, by a highpower smith. Kurt says he can get them in the 3 lb range.

[Bryan 45]

I have limited 3 gun experience w/ my M1A, but I've fired it quite a bit outside of matches. Trapr showed me Kurt's mag change technique at the Blue Ridge, it's the cat's pajamas. I've been practicing it some, so hopefully I won't revert back to my old ways the next time the buzzer goes off. I don't expect you will see any changes if you start replacing parts in the gas system. The Springfield parts are good stuff, and should last a few thousand rounds.

I would recommend changing the front sight to something thinner. Mine has standard sights, they made it a little tough on flashers past 300. I plan on putting a NM sight on the front, but leaving the bigger peep on the rear. I also would suggest a synthetic stock. You won't have to worry about the wood compressing, which can make it a little loose in the stock.

I use Tetra grease on it. Grease the bolt roller, both lugs, op rod track on receiver, top inside of receiver where the bolt rides, and the bottom of the barrel at the chamber where the op rod touches when it's at the rear. After you put some rounds through it, grease any area that gets shiney. Oil won't do any good for these spots, must use grease.

Stay away from the california comp works mag carriers, they don't hold the mag very well. If they are loose enough to let you draw a mag out, the mag will fall out when you run.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Bryan 45

[ArturoJ]

The ALLEY SUPPLY front sight is nice. For lube I use Slide Glide, make sure you lube up the inside of the op rod and op rod spring. Jut run the Springfield parts, they are fine. Get an extra extractor and spring and learn how to replace it here, (You may need to be a member of m14fl.com to view the link).

[R112mercer]

Thanks for the info, guys.

Dan: It's box stock, unbedded (I'm guessing it came as a "loaded" M1a, which just has the NM barrel) with a trigger probably hovering in the 4-5# range (haven't weighed it yet). BTW, nice shooting at the West Point match, I knew you were shooting it, would have liked to meet you in person.

What goes into a unitized gas system? What does it do for you?

I figured I'd shoot it a bunch to get it worn in, then think about having it bedded.

[Dan Sierpina]

Thanks for the info, guys.

Dan: It's box stock, unbedded (I'm guessing it came as a "loaded" M1a, which just has the NM barrel) with a trigger probably hovering in the 4-5# range (haven't weighed it yet). BTW, nice shooting at the West Point match, I knew you were shooting it, would have liked to meet you in person.

What goes into a unitized gas system? What does it do for you?

I figured I'd shoot it a bunch to get it worn in, then think about having it bedded.

Rob,

The unitized gas system attaches the front band and gas cylinder together. The old method is drilling and tapping through the spindle valve and using screws. The later method was TIG welding the front band and gas cylinder together, the spindle valve still works. What it does is keep things consistant, no movement on the front end. Also, the front band gets annealed to hold the handguard in place. The less parts are banging around, the better the harmonics/ accuracy. Having it bedded is beneficial right from the start, then you know if it's the rifle or you

Thanks about West Point. It's a fun match, and the Cadets deserve our support. Are you going to shoot Area 8 Multigun, or Area 7 pistol? I'm doing both, and would enjoy meeting you too.

[R112mercer]

I'm still going back and forth on the A8 Multi-gun. I probably will (if it's still on, see the match annoucements section ) Probably a no-go on the A7, to far North to justify the trip. I am going to A8 pistol in VA. If not this season there's always next... Thanks again, guys!

[JKSNIPER]

Watch the trigger pull.

Should keep it around 4.5 pounds.

No need for a super light pull and keeping it there will make it easier to shoot other disciplines that require minimum trigger pull measurments.

JK

[ArturoJ]

Check out the new M1A sight from Tech-Sights. I was wondering when someone would make something like this.

[Bryan 45]

I love the Tech-Sights for my 10/22, but I just don't see the utility of this, other than being able to use AR15 front sight posts. It's much easier to zero for elevation w/ the rear sight, and then index the elevation drum for the distance you zero'ed. On my rifle, I know for a 200 yard zero, I am 9 clicks up from bottom. It's always easy to check your zero, even if something happens w/ your elevation drum.

A match M1A front sight is somewhere around .062, that .047 post is going to look ittle-bitty way out there.

[ArturoJ]

I want it to be ittle-bitty way out there sometimes, when I don't I can change it.

I also would like to regulate how many clicks up my 100 meter zero is with with out filing the sight or buying a taller one.

My scout rifle takes 22 clicks up for a 100 meter zero, I would rather have it be about 4 up.

I just think this sight might make M1/M14/M1A sights even better.

YMMV.

[R112mercer]

Thanks for all the great help guys! KurtM seems to be keeping quiet on his super slick mag change technique (unless it's an awful long trip home)! Anyone care to take a stab at teaching the master's techniques? Or did he make you sign a confidentiality waiver?

[mike cyrwus]

Thanks for all the great help guys! KurtM seems to be keeping quiet on his super slick mag change technique (unless it's an awful long trip home)! Anyone care to take a stab at teaching the master's techniques? Or did he make you sign a confidentiality waiver?

Hes at TDSA teaching a shotgun class this weekend. Hes a busy boy.

I saw him do it once, but I was under the influence of some home brew porter, so I think you should wait...

[kurtm]

WOW home for two days after a month away, then off to a shotgun class....I WILL chime in more tomorrow but I am beat! As for sights, loading etc. I will be back! Kuert

[kurtm]

AHHH the Whiskey is chilling in the jar and now all is well...on to M1A,s!

First off "NM" doesn't mean a whole lot, at best it means the part in question is at the best spec possible FROM mil spec selection! As for front sights it can vary from .050 to .072 depending on who built it and who shot it! ( I like the .050 spec sight ). There are 80 different ways to bed them but as long as it is a two stage process and it ends up with at least 7# of down tension on the front stock ferrule who cares! You don't need double lug receivers, I never could tell the difference, Yea they might hold bedding a bit longer but who cares if it is within 1000 round for one or the other when you have to keep on it for BULLSEYE accuracy! For 3 gun as long as it is stable in the stock and has a significant amount of down tension on the barrel life is good!

I have yet to see a set of sights as good as what comes on it for general use or 3-gunning. The NM rear sight is WAY too small in the aperture to be good for what we do. I won't say it doesn't need some tweaking to make the sight track well and stay put, but it is still the best!

Speaking of whiskey, I have won more than one bottle on the bet that I can reload an M-14 as fast or faster than most can load an AR. No great secret! But it is one of those things you almost have to see to believe, Here goes, but not in all the great detail of the last 3 times I posted this as I am plain tired of typing it.

First grab your new mag so that the support hand is holding the mag about 1/2 way down from the top with the bullets facing forward ( I run mine bullets down and to the rear in the mag pouch...kind of reverse of pistol mags) with your thumb pointing straight out to the side of the mag toward the gun I say support hand as the M-14 is TRULY ambidextrous

Bring the mag up along side the spent mag, hit the mag release with your thumb that is sticking out and push forward and down on the spent mag kind of like you are pushing your thumb THROUGH the back of the old mag. This will eject the spent mag around 6-10 feet in front of you. At this point you will notice that your new mag is right at the proper angle to insert into the mag well for the rock and lock. With a little practice you can be back on target about the time the spent mag hits the ground. I can usually run it around 2 seconds shot to shot, but ol Sam Keen can "giterdone" around the 1.55-1.75 mark. It works for AK,s and Saigas...but don't tell them they might think it is a conspiracy

The only place I run oil on an M-14 is on the op rod where it goes through the op rod guide on the barrel and spring! You don't need any kind of "fancy" spring guide, it just adds weight! IN the op rod cam ad the rest of it I love tetra-gun grease as someone mentioned. Locking lugs, bolt lugs, tail of the gas piston, and bolt roller, trigger sear and disconnect! Someone said anywhere shiny...good advice!

Never make an M-14 shorter than 18" barrel, leave the SOCOM for the mall Ninjas. Always use USGI mags...BRW, W, OM, marked mags and re barrel them when you think you have lost the ability to shoot iron sights, it will come right back to being a very accurate rifle.

Stay in the 150 - 175 grain bullet range and in general they will like 168 the best. They love AA2520...the "Camp Perry Powder"

Make the trigger as good as you can, or can get...."stay at 4.5"...BULL!!! You can get them down around 2.5 and when you are huffing and puffing and trying to hit a 400 yard flasher you will be MUCH happier. The hammers and triggers are great!

Run the gas piston plug at 15 ft/# at least and you will never "hammer one apart" Be sure to grease the piston plug threads, the only special tools you need are gas piston scrapers and a GI combo tool handle for the cleaning rod, It is a real good idea to have a gas piston nut wrench...it kind of looks like a tuning fork!

Are M-14s good for 3-gun/Heavy Metal??? The winningest Heavy Metal MAN..Pat Kelley has a list of wins longer than a stock M-14... and that list is single spaced! KurtM

[JKSNIPER]

Kurt,

Sounds like you know the M-1A well.

Not saying you're wrong but with trigger pull lower than 4.5 there is a VERY increased risk of A.D./N.D.s

This is probably the one area where LEO's are ahead of the "bell curve" compared to the competitive civilian shooter.

Benchrest shooting situation is one thing.

Everythings calm...no stress other than the stress you make in your own head.

You can have a very light trigger and do well and have no issues from it.

Move on to 3 gun shooting and highpower and aside from it being illegal in CMP rules for highpower its downright dangerous to lower the trigger to what some guys will lower it to and theres actually NO reason to do so.

Light triggers helping guys shoot better ( below 4.5 pounds) is one of those urban myths like scopes helping people to shoot better.

(Scopes don't help you shoot better they help you SEE better to perfect your aim on target)

Lightening a trigger below 4.5 pounds gives NO increase in accuracy for highpower rifle or 3 gun disciplines but it DOES give a very real danger of A.D./N.D. situations.

Give a guy a super light trigger, add competitive stress, time clocks and mag changes etc..... and stand back.

True story....had a guy I worked with who was one of our snipers and a great shot.

When he retired another guy wanted his rifle assigned to him when he went to sniper school under the theory that if it worked good for **** it will work good for me.

First day on the firing line for zeroing this guy is not firing a shot.

He finally calls over the instructor and says theres something wrong with the rifle.

The instructor tries shooting it and when he pulls the trigger he gets to a point where he checks the safety to see if its still on.

The rifles (Rem 700 PSS) trigger pull measured out at around 12-15 pounds.

When we asked **** about it he said "I thought it was supposed to be like that"

He had shot it for YEARS like that and always shot very well with it.

Now....before someone goes ranting on me......I'm not saying everyone should now go out and get their triggers for their remingtons adjusted to 15# trigger pulls.

But the 4.5 # trigger is a good proven trigger weight that will keep you shooting safely and still able to shoot well, you'll stay within the rules for highpower should you ever decide to try it out, and you'll avoid any possible "whoopsies" that can happen when we all try to push the envelope and out do ourselves while we're under our own stressful environment in our head.

One last point theres another name on the police LOD death wall due to a light trigger.

The guy accidentally shot a fellow officer in the back of the head with a rifle on an operation involving a barricaded subject.

The weapons trigger was adjusted down to around a pound and a half.

Having said that Kurt your mag change sounds awesome.....I agree 100% about the SOCOM models.

Good thread.

JK

[kurtm]

JK, even Col. Copper recomended 2-3 pounds "crisp" on defensive firearms. As for cops being on the cutting edge of the "bell Curve", MANY have N.D.ed with the New York Trigger in Glocks and used to do a fair amount with their good old M-10 S&W,s. Heavy trigger pulls DON'T make for safety with the poorly trained, nor stupid!

I can think of only one GM's pistol with a trigger pull GREATER than two pounds and I just haven't seen the carnage you allude to at any major match...ever. Anytime you exert a force greater than the weight of the weapon on the trigger to get it to go bang you run the very real risk of disturbing the "lay of the weapon upon discharge". If it wasn't such an advantage, why does the Hi-Power crowd even bother to weight trigger pulls at a major match? The good old 4.5 pounds that many fall back upon was the lowest limit found in the original spec of the 03 Springfield that would pass the drop test....AT THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY! Since Hi-power started with a service rifle....service spec! Go figure.

I do agree with what you are saying for the liability minded shooter...IE. Sniper who has to meet department mandates so they don't get sued for wrongful death, because sleezy defense lawyers found out dumb jurries will buy the "hair trigger mad dog killer" defence when their client is shot trying to kill a bunch of nuns on the sub-way and paralized for life. But this is a legal problem, and hasn't seemed to be the problem many might think. Hell even D class shooters know that a nice trigger will get them further than a hard one will and they aren't out scaring the horses and frightening the Women with their 2 pound trigger pull J.P. rifles

As for knowing a bit about M-14,s, I did see a couple as an 8513 with the 22nd A.M.U. support back before AR-15 and "rifle" were said in the same sentence. Saw an M-40 or two also.

To recap and para-phrase you will get much further with a gun with a nice LIGHT trigger and a smile than with just a smile. After all we are talking about competition weapons on a competition forum, Not a Hi-power forum or sniper forum. KurtM

[R112mercer]

Kurt;

Thanks so much for all the info, I can't wait to get out and see what this thing can do! As for the mag change, it works great, I just had to figure out that you can't do it when the bolt is held open by the mag, it seems to put more pressure on the mag. And thanks to everyone else for all the help/info!

[hopalong]

Rob,

The reload is pretty slick once you get used to doing it.

My scout rifle trigger is a nice 3 1/2 lbs ......2 1/2 first stage, one more second and I have yet to have a AD/ND. Just remember to take your bang finger out of the bang hole while reloading !

Now I just need to rebarrel the thing. ($$$$)

Hop

[JKSNIPER]

The 4.5 pound min I quoted has NOTHING to do with the turn of the century '03 Springfield specs.

"Rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols."

While I greatly respect Col Cooper and his knowledge on the 1911 and other pistols we're discussing the M-14/ M-1A.

Rifles are offensive weapons VS pistols which are defensive.

Perhaps it was Col Coper who first said: " You know what a pistol is? Its what you use to fight your way to a rifle."

All shooters should be aware of potential liability when doing ANYTHING to their firearms.

What works for the super duper GM champion is what works for HIM and not necessarily what works for the other 99% of the shooters out there.

"Just because Billy jumps off a bridge..."

Lightening up a trigger to a minimum of 4.5 pounds is a standard set by gunsmiths who consult with the ASA.

I've shot rifles with VERY light trigger pulls and those with much heavier ones.

Once the rifle is set to 4.5-5 pound trigger pull it becomes a question of diminishing returns.

The difference in the performance of the same shooter shooting his rilfe adjusted to a 4.5 and then a 2 pound trigger is not measurable.

However the possibility of an A.D./N.D. due to the construction of the trigger mechanism and the amount of sear engagement when going below 4.5 pounds IS measurable.

Its just not worth the possible cost.

Heavy triggers do NOT automatically confer safe gun handling on someone ....on that we agree 100%.......however the greater possibility of an accident with a trigger below 4.5 pounds is a documented fact.

Just my .02

Peace out cub scout.

JK

[Flexmoney]

I think everybody has said their piece on the trigger weight...

Lets move on !

[bigbrowndog]

trigger weight !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

trigger weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

trigger weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........................................

trapr

[Dan Sierpina]

Now I just need to rebarrel the thing. ($$$$)

Hop

Hop, have you tried Champion's Choice for a rebarrel? They used to include installation in the price, if I remember correctly. Also check with Kreiger.

[JKSNIPER]

Kreiger is the way to go .

JK