BrianH Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I couldn't figure out why the hell my ammo stopped going off. Everybody's giving me all kinda advice (that I appreciate), but when I mentioned the old Winchester primers I recently started using, they just looked at me confused! So I went and got a case of Federals, cause they worked last time, and BAMM!!!! There it is!!!! Ammo that fires! I guess one of the lessons of reloading I have a hard time sticking to is... : Stick with what works; and when something works, don't change it. ....this one could go into 'Match Screw-ups' too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 how old Brian? I've been having trouble too, I'm not sure how to age mine, but the lot No. is RCLD106. I've replaced firing pin and spring, filed down the firing pin stop, checked the primer seating on every round and still get missfires, even happenned on a stage where you start off with empty mags would you believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 A friend of mine recently made an experiment with federal 100 primers. He shots 20 rounds of .40 with new brass, 20 rounds of .40 with old brass , exactly the same charge bullets etc... Then he reloaded in exactly the same way 40 rounds with new and old brass with winchester primers. The ammo with federals are 40 feet faster each time (no matter what the brass is new or not ). It gave him 7 points more in PF ! We all use federal primers here , they are soft, they goes bang everytime (I have a 15 pounds mainspring on my gun !) . DVC Julien (Edited by Julien Boit at 8:05 am on May 22, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I have started arguments with this comment. I don't use Win because they don't always go off. I think they have fixed the problem but this is experience speaking. I have watched many random fails to fire over the years. It seemed to quit in the late 90's. I could get Win for $12/1000 I choose to pay $16 for Fed. AH also did a article on accuracy and Fed was a little more accurate. I knew that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 My open class NRA gun shoots 1.2" worse at 50y with winchester primers. Velocity way to varied, over 50fps extreme spread. Use federal 100's and the ES is 18fps. Groups back at 2" or less. From sandbags using good optics. Now I have got to shoot it that good from prone, then off hand. HA! Phil, would the dud primers be the ones that everyone was buying at Napier Nov 2001 real cheap. I have had quite a few bleats about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 After 2 bad 1000 primer batches of Winchester sm. rifle primers, I am switching to Remington. Will post my lot number. One was bought through a mail order retailer in the southeast; the other at a retail outlet near Richmond. Both batches inconsistently ignited 9 supercomp. The reaction was several normal shots, then a huge flash in the comp (as if I had hybrid ports, though I don't) and then a few more normal shots. Have eliminated all other variables; it is the primers. These primers do it in a friend's gun too. I do not like to bad mouth a product, and I am not loyal to another brand of primers yet. My grandfather even worked for winchester many years ago, so I should be the biggest Winchester fan there is. However, Winchester has caused me much annoyance that I hope others will be able to avoid through our experience. Reluctantly switching to Remington, Federal or CCI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Carlos, I saw this happening with 3N38 powder (big flashes through the comp but not everytime) are you sure this is the primers ? DVC Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 This primer issue is well-known in Glock circles. The Winchester primers seem to be old-type and new-type. They are different in color. (I don't know which is which.) I was of the thinking that the newer Winchester primers (whichever color that is), where harder. Anybody shooting a Glock with the light (in comparison to stock) striker spring...uses Federal. ----------- Thread Drift: BillS. I just ordered a huge bunch or Federal primers... please email me if you have a local source. Mine will shipped today (read as: Hazmat charge). I don't see them listed on Shooter's Connection's site anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I have used winchester for two years now on a very lightly sprung beretta with one failure to fire. The winchesters seem to load smoother in the Dillon for me than the Federal. You guys have got me all nervous now...If accuracy and velocity are documented better in the federal, that may be reason enough to switch. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Julien - greetings from the US! I am using N350 and my last lot was quite old ('97) so powder was my original worry. However, a friend using recently manufactured 3N37 had same problem with these primers in a 38Supercomp and his comped caspian. Still another friend gave me 4000 cases that he had reloaded 5x in exchange for me cleaning, resizing, and hand priming the cases and giving 1/2 back to him (I rejected those with loose primer pockets and will load them light for the Astra 400/9Largo). Anyway, he loaded these Winchester primed cases with N-105 Supermagnum. All 3 of us had inconsistent ignition with Winchester primers. The same load/case/bullet had no odd symptoms with 200 CCI prinmers I bought from a retail gunstore nearby (was in a bind & needed primers so went with CCIs at $3 per 100!). Good thought as to it being the powder, but I seem to have ruled that out as the culprit. Will let you know if problem re-appears. How is the IPSC season progressing for you in France? Will Eric Graffel (sp?) win the world shoot again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I think the 'big-blast-every-few-shots' (especially noticable indoors) is due to unburned powder collecting in the comp, and not the primers-- I get it with N350 and almost any sort of primer I care to use in my open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Eric is in great shape , He just keep kicking asses. I spoke with him for a moment, he said he was pretty happy this week end because he won (again) the Euro MedCup by almost 7% over Max michel . This is common but let me tell he shoots his old backup gun because he didn't received his match guns on time. He didn't shoot this gun for a year. I hope he'll win again the WorldShoot, it's very important for us, french shooters in that time because we're having hard time with the governement . BTW, he uses SP2 Practical. DVC Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 "Reluctantly switching to Remington, Federal or CCI." Don't know which reloading machine you're using, but if it's a Dillon stay away from the CCIs. The thickness of the primers (I don't mean the thickness of the cup material, I mean the actual top-to-bottom size of the primer itself) is inconsistent enough that an extra-thick primer will break the plastic "feed lips" off your primer feed tube. (Edited by Duane Thomas at 12:56 pm on May 22, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I don't recall ever having a bad Winchester primer, old or new. That's many tens of thousands of WSP, WSR, WLP. I did have a Remington factory-primed Super misfire. I disassembled the round and decapped the primer to find it had no priming compound under the anvil. If you get a Dillon primer filler, you'll be aghast at all the "bad" (dimensionally) primers that hang it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Federal primers are the best. From PPC revolvers to IPSC guns to carry guns and NRA action pistols, never one misfire with Federal primers. This with about 100 different guns over 27 years, Federal primers always work. I have had factory ammo from one of the other primer` makers that had misfires in a factory spec gun. I buy Federal only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted May 23, 2002 Author Share Posted May 23, 2002 I figured one (possible) problem was that the Winchesters are about 6 years old and have spent the last 2 in a garage that was increadibly damp. I thought the age and the dampness was causing the missfires. I can't say I had problems with Win before, except back when I tried Win. SRP in .38 Super. Without a dead center lockup on the barrel, I got missfires, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 I've never had a problem with winchester primers, but switched to them from CCI only last year. The new ones are brass colored. I had all kinds of problems with CCI primers a couple of days. The first day my 45-70 loads shot like crap in 24 degree weather, and the next day I had misfires with .357 loads when it was 28 degrees. Went out the next day when it was 26 degrees and had no problems with loads using winchester primers. All other components were of the same lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 For what it's worth, the new Winchester small rifle primers (gold primers, blue box) are much harder than the old WSR primers (white box, silver primer). So much so, that I switched to WSP instead of WSR for the 38 super. The new WSR just weren't going off, and the cure was to go up to a 19 lb. mainspring, which I don't care for. The new WSP still goes off 100% with my old setup, and has no flow issues like the old WSP did. Interesting thing is winchester currently lists 38 super +p for use with WSP primers. I no longer use rifle primers in the 38 super at all. For the AR, it's still WSR and they work fine. (I assumed everyone was talking about pistol applications.) Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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