So, what's wrong with S&B brass?

[njl]

I've seen several people post that they throw away any S&B brass they pick up. I was planning to go to a match today I assumed would be lost brass, so last night I decided to load up some 9mm in less desirable brass. I've been loading Winchester. Last night, I loaded 200 in S&B. This was probably 8 year old S&B brass from S&B 115gr ammo I bought and shot. I didn't have any trouble with it. I haven't shot any yet...and I kind of overslept, so I think the match isn't happening.

Is it worth chronographing these? i.e. does brass brand have much impact on velocity? I suppose the case volume could be different.

[Alan550]

The reason most of us throw it away is because of the primer pocket problems. The pockets are really tight (almost a crimped primer) and some primers won't go in easily enough to be worth the trouble on a progressive press.

Alan~^~

[njl]

I'm using CCI, which I've heard can be harder to seat even in good brass. Is it possible the problems with S&B brass developed more recently, and this old stuff doesn't have them.

Edited May 3, 2009 by njl

[Alan550]

As long as you're not having problems, go on with what you have. I encountered this for the first time 10-12 years ago, and haven't picked up a piece of it since for that reason.

Alan~^~

[benny hill]

What problem...?

Load with a 1050 with the swag rod in place.

[Joe4d]

Nothing wrong with them S&B just goes in the same category as alot of military brass with crimped and lacquered primers. They generally need the primer pocket reamed. Many people arnt interested in the extra step. But it only needs to be done once then the brass can go into your normal rotation.

[bbbean]

FWIW, I've reloaded a few hundred S&Bs in .45 and haven't noticed any problems with them on my 550. I have a few hundred 9mm cases I'll try next (plus several hundred rounds of 9mm S&B I bought years ago but never shot up).

[bofe954]

I use them in my 550 too. You can wind up with high primers if you aren't paying attention.

[fred fague]

Some of it is steel with a brass coating. If it sticks to a magnet toss it, if it does not load it!

[TonyT]

I have expereinced difficulty with easy seating of primers with a lot of S&B brass. Inmstead of rweaming it I use it onvce and leave it lay on the ground for someone else to pick up.

[Carlos]

There is a misunderstanding in the posts above:

S&B's primer pockets are NOT crimped in any way, nor are they any "tighter" than most US produced brass.

Before anyone asks "so then why did I have such trouble seating primers?" - look at the manufacturing process.

S&B = primer pocket machined into the case. The pocket has a left-over, sharp-edged shoulder from where the brass was milled away when they machined the brass in the Czech Republic. If you are crushing primers during seating with S&B, then your priming set up is not perfectly centered, or it is loose enough that sometimes a primer catches on that shoulder (happens in my old 650XL from time to time).

U.S. brass = punched pocket. The US makers simply forge or punch the pocket into the brass in a rather crude (though effective) way. This is why there is a lot of left over crap around the flash hole inside the case. Punching also leaves a nice, forgiving chamfer around the pocket - which is why you never have priming issues with it no matter how sloppy your priming set up is.

The S&B case is actually a higher precision case than most US brass. I use it for 9mmMajor because its strong and easy to tell if its once-fired (factory primers are sealed).

And, if you simply use a Dillon 1050 with a built in swage station, then S&B (and actual crimped pockets from .mil brass) do not slow you down at all.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Carlos

[lugnut]

Carlos- you may be correct in the way S&B makes their brass... however- it IS a PITA to seat primers into their brass unless you ream/swage the pockets. My press must not be perfect for these tolerances and many, many others experience the same challenge.

For this and the fact that they brilliantly (no pun intended) apply a brass coating on a steel case makes it less valuable brass to me.

It usually just goes into my scrap bucket.

Edited May 5, 2009 by lugnut

[D. Manley]

The pocket has a left-over, sharp-edged shoulder from where the brass was milled away when they machined the brass in the Czech Republic.

After initial problems with S&B brass when I first tried them I examined a bunch thoroughly under a lighted magnifier and came to the same conclusion...sharp pocket corner minus any bevel. Adding a little chamfer by hand will "get you by" but the best solution is to give 'em a little bump them with a swaging tool. Once done, I find it very good and durable brass but you do have to be alert for the brass plated steel ones.

[VegasOPM]

I love S&B for 9mm or .40. It is strong and the brass lasts a long time before the primer pockets loosen up. I look at the head stamp on every cartridge before I load them on the 550, so I know if I need to expect a little more work when I get to an S&B case. +1 on making double sure that your primer ram is centered.

[Carlos]

-and the fact that they brilliantly (no pun intended) apply a brass coating on a steel case makes it less valuable brass to me.

It usually just goes into my scrap bucket.

Brass-plating steel cases is, I agree, a low-down, underhanded, sneaky rotten thing to have done, and I do not blame anyone for trashing such brass on that basis alone. AND, that sharp edge on the pocket of all S&B brass bites me in the butt from time to time too - just not enough so that I skip S&B altogether.

Maybe after my 650's priming system blows up someday, I'll join the "S&B is scrap!" band wagon.

[TurboFC3S]

I've loaded thousands of S&B's in all calibers and never noticed any issues with it. In fact, the only brass issue I can think of worth mentioning is RP brass in .45 seems thin and often allows bullet setback even with a crimp, so I set it aside and only load lead in it.

[R A Miller]

I've loaded thousands of S&B's in all calibers and never noticed any issues with it. In fact, the only brass issue I can think of worth mentioning is RP brass in .45 seems thin and often allows bullet setback even with a crimp, so I set it aside and only load lead in it.

+1

I've also loaded thousands of S&B, mostly .45 acp and some .40 S&W on my Dillon 650 with no problems. With mixed brass I can tell when I'm seating a primer in an S&B case versus another brand of case.

I separate the S&B from the brass that will be used to load rounds with Federal primers for my S&W 625's, just to be safe.

I have not run across any S&B cases that were brass plated steel cases. Is this something new?

I've also had problems loading .45 acp with the RP brass. The .45 RP brass goes in the scrap bucket.

Rick

[lugnut]

I have not run across any S&B cases that were brass plated steel cases. Is this something new?

Rick- I have confirmed this in 9mm only. They do exist, and not all of them are steel.

[R A Miller]

I have not run across any S&B cases that were brass plated steel cases. Is this something new?

Rick- I have confirmed this in 9mm only. They do exist, and not all of them are steel.

Thanks lugnut. I've been collecting 9mm brass as I'm going to start loading that caliber soon. I'll keep an eye out for for plated steel S&B cases. And I agree, brass-plating steel cases is a low-down, underhanded, sneaky rotten thing to do.

Rick

[D. Manley]

I have not run across any S&B cases that were brass plated steel cases. Is this something new?

No and thankfully, it seems to be showing up less & less at my local range. I don't really know about other calibers but in 9MM, they actually market 2 separate versions with different stock numbers. I've seen both of them offered and listed separately by a couple of vendors. To the eye, the cases are identical...matter of fact, I actually reloaded and shot a few of the steel ones before I found out what was up with them. FWIW, the steel ones are a beast going through the press...being hard to prime is an understatement.

[lugnut]

Just ran by some fine S&B brass again tonight. The press got stuck so I thought maybe a old primer didn't pop out enough. Turned out the new primer that was just seated into a case didn't go in all the way and caused the shell plate to get stuck.

[R A Miller]

Just ran by some fine S&B brass again tonight. The press got stuck so I thought maybe a old primer didn't pop out enough. Turned out the new primer that was just seated into a case didn't go in all the way and caused the shell plate to get stuck.

Lugnut, what press are you running? Dillon makes an alignment tool for the 550/650 that aligns the tool head to the platform. This will ensure that the primer ram is in the proper location in relation to the case. I check the alignment on my 650 every few thousand rounds.

Rick

[lugnut]

Just ran by some fine S&B brass again tonight. The press got stuck so I thought maybe a old primer didn't pop out enough. Turned out the new primer that was just seated into a case didn't go in all the way and caused the shell plate to get stuck.

Lugnut, what press are you running? Dillon makes an alignment tool for the 550/650 that aligns the tool head to the platform. This will ensure that the primer ram is in the proper location in relation to the case. I check the alignment on my 650 every few thousand rounds.

Rick

Rick- I doubt this is a press issue as the primer was indeed pushed straight into the case but the pocket was tight and basically the priming ram pressed the primer hard enough to deform it! I use all kinds of brass for my 9s and S&B (and any crimped brass) is the only brass that really gives me any problems. I use a Hornady press so any adjustment would be needed on the shell plate- but it's centered fine. I guess I could get a 1050.

[R A Miller]

Rick- I doubt this is a press issue as the primer was indeed pushed straight into the case but the pocket was tight and basically the priming ram pressed the primer hard enough to deform it! I use all kinds of brass for my 9s and S&B (and any crimped brass) is the only brass that really gives me any problems. I use a Hornady press so any adjustment would be needed on the shell plate- but it's centered fine. I guess I could get a 1050.

That is just too strange. I've never had a problem with S&B but then again, I've never loaded 9mm. But I like your solution of getting a 1050.

[lugnut]

Rick- I doubt this is a press issue as the primer was indeed pushed straight into the case but the pocket was tight and basically the priming ram pressed the primer hard enough to deform it! I use all kinds of brass for my 9s and S&B (and any crimped brass) is the only brass that really gives me any problems. I use a Hornady press so any adjustment would be needed on the shell plate- but it's centered fine. I guess I could get a 1050.

That is just too strange. I've never had a problem with S&B but then again, I've never loaded 9mm. But I like your solution of getting a 1050.

Yeah.... I have found an occasional .40 sneak in and I don't recall them being such a problem. It wouldn't be so bad but I just wasted a perfectly good primer.