Calling the shot

[Flexmoney]

Wow, Ron...great explanation.  Sounded like a Ghost Dog post.

You should be a teacher.

[DogmaDog]

Calling the shot is easy to understand in a slow-fire rifle context.  

Say you're shooting offhand at 200 yards.  You mount your rifle, and acquire the sights, verify your target, then focus on the front sight and exhale.  You watch the sight settle down.  If you just watch the sight, it will move around in a "wobble area" on the target, and the wobble area will expand and contract.  When it contracts, you start to squeeze the trigger, and squeeze as long as the sights are aligned and the front is in the center of the black.  You watch the sight so intently that when the shot actually breaks, you know where on the target the sights were, and how they were moving...X at 4 O'clock, moving toward the center say.  The target goes down, and you would actually write down your call in a data book, plotting a point at 4 o'clock near the center of your call diagram.  When the target comes up, and it actually IS an X at 4 O'clock, or maybe 6 o'clock, cause the sights were moving left, you're good.

With a rifle, its pretty easy to maintain sight alignment, because you have a stockweld.  With a pistol, calling the shot (with iron sights) requires that you estimate the point of impact based on any error in sight alignment as well as where the sights are on the target.  

But calling the shot is just this instant of cognition when the gun goes off..."the sights were left, at the outer edge of the C zone" flashes through your mind, and you can now decide whether to take a make-up shot or not.

For me, calling shots is often like the desire to yell "Dammit!" or "Sonuva!", bacause I'll do some stupid newbie thing like jerk the trigger when the sights are good, and then watch as they misalign somewhere in the dirt.

Semper Fi,

DogmaDog

[shred]

another common error on steel is shooting "At the steel" and not at a _certain point_ on the steel.  That helped me immensely.

[benos]

shred,

Good point! That one helped me immensely as well, at the Masters...

Don't just shoot "at" the target, shoot at the center.

If you just shoot "at" steel, you might miss the steel.

If you just shoot at the "body," you might miss the entire body.

If you just shoot at the "head box," you'll probably miss it.

Shoot for the A boxes; shoot for the center.

be

[benos]

Shooter grrl,

Instead of going with something "usual," your question made me remember an "event," so I'll just tell a story.

I was working with a guy, trying to get him to learn what it felt/looked like to really call the shot. We were shooting off the bench at 25 yds, and I was shooting a group with his gun. I saw the sight lift "perfectly" and simultaneously proclaimed - "That was a perfect shot." (Which it was.) He asked what made me say that, and I said - "I saw the sight lift perfectly out of the notch at the instant the shot fired." (And what I didn't say was I felt VERY CALM mentally, physically, and visually at the instant the shot fired.) Later, he was doing some shooting, and after one shot he enthusiastically and spontaneously exclaimed - "That was a perfect shot!" I asked how he know and he basically repeated my earlier words back to me. And then he told me that he felt a very strange sense of calmness at the instant the shot fired. (I'm getting chills typing this now.) I could tell he felt something had never felt... So I said, as he was aligning another shot - "It felt really cool, didn't it"? He stopped aiming, looked up at me and said - "Yea, it felt really cool." He looked very happy and content. (Now, he was an older fellow, retired, and dressed in a button up shirt.) It felt good to me that I was able to get "through" to him.

be

[Flexmoney]

I love this stuff!

SG asked a great question...and got three fantastic responses.  

This shot calling is one of those things...if you think you have it figured out...you likely don't.  Once you start to get it right...you know.

(Edited by Flexmoney at 7:17 pm on May 24, 2002)

[Flexmoney]

Reminds me of the Mel Gibson movie..."aim small, miss small".

[gm iprod]

Not sure which golfer said it.

If you aim at the pin you might hit it.  If you aim at the green you might miss it.

[cypher]

I really liked "The Patriot".  

When he tells his son "Aim small... miss small."  that brought a big smile to my lips.

Homero

[DogmaDog]

BE,

I know exactly what you're talking about.  I've only experienced this during a few shots with a rifle, and I still don't have it with a pistol, but its this sort of ethereal moment.  The whole world becomes crystalline, and the gun is going off, and the sights are aligned on the target because that's just the natural order of things, and it's not me as a separate entity trying to force my will upon the world.  All sounds are kinda muffled (or is that just the ear plugs?).  When it has happened it even seems like the gun cycles more smoothly, like there are no disharmonic vibrations in it as it cycles.  Time slows.  The shot is a dead center X, and it's not a matter of KNOWING it, because the bullet just followed the trajectory etched in the crystalline fabric of the world...the natural order of things.  It's like sight alignment, except the sights aren't aligned with your eye and the target, they're aligned with your SOUL.

That's the feeling I'm after.  That's broader than my more mundane understanding of "calling the shot", but I know that feeling couldn't be attained without calling the shot.  I also know that I can generally call the shot  without feeling that feeling, so I make a distinction between the technical act of calling the shot and the much more spiritual revelation of making that perfect shot.  

I'm glad this forum exists.  Other gun forums I've visited would call me a loony if I said any of this stuff.  

Semper fi,

DogmaDog

[Duane Thomas]

My God, man. That was beautiful. Seriously. I've felt what you describe only a few times - but I couldn't have expressed it so perfectly.

[vincent]

On the subject of blinking during fire, any pointers on ways to help work through this problem?  Thanks.

[Steve Anderson]

Look for muzzle flash if indoors.

If outdoors, watch for the front sight to leave the rear sight.

This is easiest done/learned with no target.

BTW, you know you've called your shots when you don't have to run down range to score your hits. You already know what they are. The RO calls 'em, but you already know.

It's happened to me a couple of times in matches, the best one was a bill drill stage in an IDPA match. At the buzzer I drew and put six in the circle @ 1.92.  Total "driving the gun/floating feeling." The RO said, let's check 'em, I said, "they're all good" and moved to the next stage.

Now, I don't mean to imply that I can always do this, or that it is easy, but the concept is simple.

It's also good to practice in Dry-fire, because you have to call the shot in dry-fire.

A major breakthrough for me was when I stopped lying to myself about dry-fire "hits." Now I make up my misses in dry fire stages...Slower, sure, but ultimatley more helpful.

Steve

[Flexmoney]

vincent,

One suggestion...use good ear plugs and muffs.  It is our body's natural reaction to flinch near a loud noise.

Also, try to run the timer some if you can.

The gun is loud...but, we are on the safe end.  No worries.

[benos]

DogmaDog,

Thanks for sharing - That was beautiful!

One more story:

I remember a stage at the Nationals a few years ago. Greg Way had just finished a run (and I was taping targets). After he unloaded he told the RO - "You don't have to score 'em, it's 3 points down." (It was a twenty-some round, blitzkrieg assault course.) It was.

be

[shred]

Ack.. I've had a suspicion that I wasn't _really_ calling my shots for a while.. sure, I knew pretty much where they went, and saw the dot do a little dance in the scope, but every so often a shot wouldn't be where it was supposed to be...

So, while testing some loads yesterday, I noticed something-- on the last shot of the magazine, the slide locks back. And I don't see the dot return. In fact, I didn't see the dot at all.

So I spent the next pile of ammo loading one round into a mag and looking (ok, maybe I was trying..) to see the dot lift, very slow fire.

Result: I don't see it lift if the slide locks back. With lots of concentration I get a very faint impression of where the dot was just as I fired, but I don't see it move.

If I put two rounds in the mag, sure enough I see the dot drop back in and do it's bouncing around as the slide does it's clackety-clunking forwards loading the second round.

I assume this means I'm blinking. I looked around a bit and most of what I found (besides this thread and another one) was "don't do that". Are there any better exercises? Is that really what's happening here?

Thanks

(Edited by shred at 2:12 pm on May 29, 2002)

[benos]

Most folks I've worked with blink. Have someone watch your eye while you shoot. And try shooting into the backstop, at NOTHING IN PARTICULAR, to remove the stress associated with "aiming." Often you'll "see more."

be

[THS]

Calling the shots has been my measurement of a solid performance for a long time.  Although I rarely get it as well as I'd like in the practical game, I have had some REAL eye opening experiences in the NRA Highpower rifle and 3-Gun pistol events.

I always tell my shooters that having shots on call is much more important than where they actually score, especially at the beginning of a shooting season.  We all wobble in an aiming area, some have smaller ones than others, but executing proper trigger controll, follow through, and sight vision (I wont use alignment, as dots allow other things) will deliver shots exactly where we think they should be.

As a drill I often take spotting scopes away from rifle or bullseye pistol shooters, and as they fire they have to tell me where the shot is.  I plot a small diagram WITHOUT telling them the exact location and have them fire again.  They'll try to make the calls perfect, and after a few repeats of this drill, they normally improve in call quality.

Pistol shooting drills like this require a partner, and ensuring the shooter does not "peek" at the shot hole after the shot.  With turning targets I would sometimes edge the target as soon as I can after the shot to stop this.

In the end, you trust your call, stop looking downrange for confirmation after each shot, and therefore get more accurate and faster.

I will always remember a day when I was shooting 50 yd slowfire practice with a .45 Hardball gun.  I fired a 10 round string in an unusually high awareness state (I can remember it like yesterday) and I fired shots with slightly mis-aligned sights that were center!  It seemed that when my sights always pointed to the X ring, even when mis-aligned.  It is hard to describe, but when I was setteling a little left, the front sight would align to the right in the rear notch, or the other way.   Having thought about this I am convinced I was executing on a purely subconcious level, and my mind knew what was acceptable sight alignment to fire an X or 10 so the shots fired.  

From that day on I've been confident in my ability to make the gun do what I want it to, and things got much easier for me.

The score was a 99 with 7x's.  The 9 was the last shot; fear of success????

Calling your shots is sort of a culmination of skills.  You know you did everything right, and therefore the shot will be exactly where you last saw the dot as it lifted.

Shoot a slowfire group at the beginning and end of every practice session, say at 20 yards where the shot holes are hard to see quickly, and concentrate on calling the shot as opposed to little groups or perfect A's.  You'll be there in no time.

Tom

(Edited by THS at 4:02 am on May 31, 2002)

[Hyozan]

I think in my case, I often am already into the results of the shot--I'm hooked on seeing how close together the holes are.  When I remember to just maintain a mental  focus on the sight even when I can't see it, all is well.  It is hard not to get interested in where the shot went sometimes......

[twix]

I saw my shots once. It was the second half of a 300 round practice. Never before or since(but I havn't been IPSCing long). It felt really cool, but I couldn't have described the process if I had to. This thread has helped me understand what may have been happening. Thanks.

[benos]

"I always tell my shooters that having shots on call is much more important than where they actually score, especially at the beginning of a shooting season."

Nice post Tom. I've had similar experiences to the one you described. It's amazing what happens when "we" get out of the way.

be

[Newguy]

I once (and only once) had a similar experience to the ones described above. I was shooting alone in the forest on an overcast day. I had just taken up pistol shooting and was using a Ruger P95 with a heavy gritty trigger (it ain't the gun). Suddenly, I felt an incredible sense of peace and calm. I knew exactly where each shot went and was hitting the bullseye every time. For the first time, I did not have to check my targets--I knew the shots were on the money. It was as if I was somehow guiding or willing the bullet to its destination.  It was a numanist or to say the least a transcendental experience.  I was at one with the gun, the forest and the universe. It all came together for that short period of time. I've been chasing that experience for years, but to no avail. I guess one downside of being into competitive shooting is that I've become more concerned with the end result (the product) rather than the process. Ironically, all of my slicked-out 1911s don't give me nearly the same pleasure I felt with that crappy Ruger.

[mcoliver]

---

...concentrate on calling the shot as opposed to little groups or perfect A's.  You'll be there in no time.

Tom

(Edited by THS at 4:02 am on May 31, 2002)

---

GASP! I suddenly realized this was what I was doing.  In fact, I was more concerned of how I could shoot and have the holes touch at least edge to edge!  All this time I sort of "knew" that I had flyers but never really bothered where they went because I "knew" they did not make it to the a-zone. Time to put my objective's gears in reverse.

Thanks a lot, guys

[sincityshooter]

How do you learn to call the shots faster?  During a fast stage with movement and close targets, I find myself realizing that I pulled off the previous target.  It's usually too late or I have to return to that target.  I see some top shooters make up shots as if they planned on shooting the target 3 times.  No pause.  Any advice on how to get rid of this delay?

[TRNinTX]

Sincity,

I know what you mean.  I have been shooting for almost two years and I have passed two milestones in my opinion this summer.  The first was when I was able to start calling shots on a regular basis (not all the time, but more often than not).  However I had the same problem you are talking about.  I was already to the next target or on my way to the next array when my mind caught up with my eyes.  Just recently I have reached the point where a lot of the time I see a miss and can process that information fast enough to make it up without hesitation.  That is way cool!  

In my case it was just shooting and shooting until my feeble mind could process all the information at once.