sifu128 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Hey everyone, I have a few questions. I just started reloading Molly's (9mm 125g) and I am curious as to how many people are using them? The problem that I have is I get a fair amount of smoke when firing the firearm. I have gone up to precession bullets and followed the suggestions as opening my bell a little more so I do not scratch off the surface. I have also changed from Tight-group over to clays with no noticeable different. I am loading 4.0 grains and using Winchester primers. I am also shooting this in a Glock 34 with a Stormlake replacement barrel. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saibot Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'm using the same bullet in my M&P with VVN320 as well as starting to use AA Solo1000. I've tried 3.8 - 4.1 and smoke is very minimal with each of these. I've recently had some bullets separate on me (OAL problem a couple threads down) and the coating was unharmed. I barley bell the case and it doesn't take it off. It appears to be a pretty tough coating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifu128 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 That is interesting. According to their web site they suggest a slower burning powder. From looking at the burn rate chart both of the powders you are using burn much faster than what I am using and the tightgroup. 1. R-1 (Norma) 2. N310 (Vihtavuori) 3. Titewad (Hodgdon) 4. AS- 30N (ADI) 5. Nitro 100 (Accurate) 6. Bullseye (Alliant) 7. Solo 1000 (Accurate) ... 12. Titegroup (Hodgdon) ... 16. Clays (Hodgdon) 17. N320 (Vihtavuori) Did you experience the same amout of smoke with both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The hotter the powder burns, the more you'll smoke. Both TG and Clays are "hot" powders. I suspect there's a corrleation between fast powders and burn temp. I also suspect that double base powders (Hodgdon) burn hotter than single base (Vit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifu128 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Thanks for the clarification. Do you think the Vih would be a good choice? Any of them out there that you have tested that are decent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Vit n320 smokes less.... Ramshot's "competition" does well I hear. It's cheaper than n320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifu128 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Sweet. Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I've been shooting Black Bullets (147 moly) in place of my old standby 147 FMJ from precision delta. Stock barrel in a 34. 3.2 Solo 1000 1.125" OAL 147 BlackBullet 128PF TG and moly bullets makes for some serious smoke. Solo1000 burns at the same rate, or very close, to TG. Stagger-loading a mag with FMJ/TG and Moly/Solo it's nearly impossible to tell the difference. Aside from the funny odor of Solo/Moly loads (burnt moly), they are great. Sure, you've actually got to keep an eye on your barrel, but they're incredibly clean. I may switch to Solo under my FMJs. And Solo1000 is half the price of N320, very similar $$$ to TiteGroup. Edited February 17, 2009 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifu128 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think I am going to try some HB38. I am worried about the burnt molly and the after affects of lung cancer, etc as I havent really seen serious studies on the effects of this stuff. Given that the molly coating should be able to withstand greater variances of heat, you would think one wouldnt have these problems with burning the molly off. If you go to http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html you can see that HP38 is number 22 on the list, which is a lot slower burning than Solo 1000 which is number 7 on the list or tightgroup which is 12. If you go to http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp you can see the following: 125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.125" 3.6 1002 22,900 CUP 4.0 1096 30,400 CUP 125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Universal .356" 1.125" 3.8 993 24,400 CUP 4.3 1096 31,300 CUP 125 GR. LCN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.125" 3.9 1009 25,700 CUP 4.4 1086 31,200 CUP The question that I have when it comes to comparing the 3 of these, does the higher cup (pressure) mean that we are going to give less smoke because we are not burning all of the power as fast, however we are generating more pressure? I do see that it does take 3.9 grains to achieve was 3.6 does on tightgroup. Sorry for the n00b question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JServais Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Recently I started using the Black Bullets 130gr over Solo 1000. 3.6gr at an OAL of 1.125 out of a 5” XD makes 126PF. I increased to 3.8gr without pressure signs. This combination produced very little smoke and the barrel fouling has been minor so far. Previous to this I tried Precision 125gr over 231. This produced a fair amount of smoke and BAD barrel fouling in 200 rounds. I suspect the Precision bullets will work just as well with the Solo 1000. I think the improvement with Solo comes from a cooler burn and a faster pressure rise to help seal the bullet to the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 If all else fails their is always the best lead bullet pusher. Unique. Try 4.2 grains and work up slow. Soft, clean (enough), cool and no smoke. Cheap and it's everywhere. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifu128 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Thanks guy, I really appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenkins51 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 To back up JServais, I too was loading with 231 (9mm 115grn, 45ACP 230grn) and have had BAD barrel fouling. This has been really tough to clean. How does Solo1000 meter? Does anyone have any suggestions on cleaning out the molly fouling? I've followed directions from Precision Bullets site, but I didn't find it helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithars Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 To back up JServais, I too was loading with 231 (9mm 115grn, 45ACP 230grn) and have had BAD barrel fouling. This has been really tough to clean.How does Solo1000 meter? Does anyone have any suggestions on cleaning out the molly fouling? I've followed directions from Precision Bullets site, but I didn't find it helpful. I've used J-B Bore Bright to get the moly out after using Precision Bullets. Seems to get the moly out a lot faster than anything else. It's basically a polishing paste and is a bit finer, and seems to work faster, than the standard bore compound. I use it with Kroil the same as the Bore Compound. I've been reading around a bit and some say that it can polish a bit too much so keep it out of the chamber. I figure it can't be any harder on the barrel than the stiff bore brush I'd have to shove through several more times when not using the compound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) Solo 1000 does not meter as well as Titegroup, which meters incredibly well in a Dillon measure. The flakes are much larger. But keeping 0.1 grain accuracy isn't exactly hard. I didn't have issues with it, and it's not a problem. I think I like the BlackBullets more the Precisions, because the coating is plain old Moly. Precision uses some sort of a high-temp polyer/moly mix, which is a bitch to clean. BB's ordinary moly coating isn't any harder to clean from my glock's barrel than ordinary carbon fouling. It's clean. But not as clean as an FMJ and titegroup/clays/VV320. I got asked what the hell I was shooting at an indoor match this tuesday. So they're not that clean, apparently. Edited February 19, 2009 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JServais Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) I load with a 550 and I haven't noticed any problems metering Solo 1000. It is bulky enough that a double charge in 9mm is obvious so that's a plus. When I have a chance I will put a larger sample over the chrono top see what the deviation is like. As far as cleaning out the moly fouling, good luck. I used liberal amounts of Hoppe's semi auto solvent, wore out a bore brush and followed that with 1000 rounds of CMJ. There must be something that cuts this stuff. I'm not a fan of scrubbing bores. Hopefully it won't be an issue with Solo. Edited February 19, 2009 by JServais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) JSeravis... What brand of bullets is giving you fits with the barrel cleanup? Precision? (Looking for a third straight report that their not-really-moly coating is tough to clean off the bore) The Moly used on BlackBullets cleans right out of my Glock's barrel. Edited February 20, 2009 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwin Lead Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I can't answer much for 9mm loads & moly bullets but I have loaded quite a few in 40. I found WST & Solo 1000 to work the best in regards to low smoke & fouling. I also use either of those powders with cast lead bullets with the same results - low smoke and little to no leading or powder fouling. You may want to look into the 9mm reloading forum here. SA Friday started a thread about a year ago and others have contributed to it regarding solo 1000 and other powders. Link Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 from their website Any powders for cast lead bullets will work for Precision Bullets. Recommended Powders Vihtavuori – N-320/N-340 Ramshot – Competition/Zip Winchester – WST Alliant – American Select/Power Pistol Hodgdon – Universal Clays/HP38 Not Recommended Powders Hodgdon – Titegroup Vihtavuori – N-310 Hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JServais Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 MemphisMechanic – It was Precision’s that I had barrel fouling problems with, but I was loading them with 231. So far I really like the BBI product and the profile on their 130gr allows me to load a longer OAL than the 125gr Precision. To be fair I would like to try Precision’s again with Solo 1000. I hope they work because there would be nothing wrong with two sources for good bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I load with a 550 and I haven't noticed any problems metering Solo 1000. It is bulky enough that a double charge in 9mm is obvious so that's a plus. When I have a chance I will put a larger sample over the chrono top see what the deviation is like.As far as cleaning out the moly fouling, good luck. I used liberal amounts of Hoppe's semi auto solvent, wore out a bore brush and followed that with 1000 rounds of CMJ. There must be something that cuts this stuff. I'm not a fan of scrubbing bores. Hopefully it won't be an issue with Solo. half hydrogen peroxide, half vinegar. Soak the barrel in it for NO MORE than 15 minutes. Copper scrub brush after the soak and the Moly and lead will come right out. No BS. it's the best way to get the stuff out of the barrel. Better than anything else I've found. Bore diameter is just as important as powder selection to stop fouling with lead and moly bullets. If the boar is .001 larget than normal, you can get gasses leaking around the bullet, sheering the moly open and melting the lead. Bam, fouling and a lot of it. For the most part, the 9mm's out there do pretty well with moly bullets. I know my 40 cal STI does amazingly well with molys and the Glocks do ok, but require very regular cleaning. It's just one of the trade off's to shoot molys IMO. It helps a lot to shoot about a thousand rounds of FMJ before ever shooting moly's or lead too. It smooths out the barrel and lessens the leading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Part of the reason I'm attracted to the Moly's is that I've sorta gotta pay attention to my cleaning schedule now. I was waiting so long between cleanings on my 34 that it almost felt like I'd done a trigger job to the gun, and this forces me not to procrastinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JServais Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 SAFriday - Thanks for the info. Have you used the hydrogen peroxide / vinegar solution in a non-stainless barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Part of the reason I'm attracted to the Moly's is that I've sorta gotta pay attention to my cleaning schedule now. I was waiting so long between cleanings on my 34 that it almost felt like I'd done a trigger job to the gun, and this forces me not to procrastinate. thread drift. I did an experiment with my glocks to see how far I could go without cleaning them. They all started to FTF at about 5k rounds. The chambers just got too crappy. Clean the chamber every 5k and I think they could actually shoot a whole season of 20 to 30 k rounds and never even get close to failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifu128 Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) I see that a lot of people here are using Solo 1000 for low smoke. I personally never experienced any bad fouling, but just the smoke which had me concerned. I also tried PB's solution for cleaning the bore than using tons of Hops #9 and it worked like a champ. How does everyone like the solo 1000 or Power Pistol? Also does anyone know what the grain load for solo 1000 on the 125's are? It looks like 4.0? Edited February 20, 2009 by sifu128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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