Premium 1911

[Service Desk]

STI Rangemaster with a trigger job. Save the rest of the money and spend it on ammo and range time.

[Steve J]

Sorry. That's not a Premium 1911. It's not even a pure 1911. It's a variant that's not even legal for USPSA Single Stack or IDPA CDP where a 1911 would be used. The OP is interested in a premium 1911.

[buddy_fuentes]

Are you saying that a Range Master isn't a pure single stack gun and cannot be used in USPSA Single Stack division? As far as I know about the Range Master it is a $2000.00 tack driver 1911. Could you be specific?

Thanks,

[Steve J]

It has a full length dust cover and a bull barrel. No it is not SS division legal. It's only a variation based on the 1911 platform. Not truly a 1911 for SS Div.

Caliber 9mm, .45 ACP

Frame STI Single Stack Steel Government Length,

full length dust cover, 30 lpi front strap checkering,

steel mainspring housing w/ 30 lpi checkering,

square trigger guard

Grip STI Logo, checkered, Cocobolo, standard thickness

Slide 5” Unique, Flat top

Slide Features STI Front & Rear Serrations, enlarged ejection port

Trigger STI long curved

Barrel STI fully supported, ramped bull barrel

Safeties STI polished Stainless Grip and ambi thumb

Guide Rod STI RecoilMaster

Sights STI front w/ STI adjustable rear

Overall Length 8.5”

Height 5.5"

Weight 41.2 oz.

Finish Matte Blue

Competition Approvals n/a

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited September 23, 2009 by Duane Thomas

[Service Desk]

What (semi)-premium 1911 would you buy if you had $2500 to spend?

I've had a few Kimbers, a Colt, a Springfield and a Spartan.

Thanks and I look forward to the witty repartee

No mention of IDPA, USPSA Single Stack or any other discipline in the post as I read it.... in my opinion the STI Rangemaster is a semi-premium 1911, we agree on the point that (in our opinions) it is not a premium 1911.

[-JQ-]

Fair warning...

I'm going to file a copyright on the terms: "premium 1911", "semi-custom" and "custom 1911" - that way we can all "agree" and the confusion will forever be gone.

Something simple like:

premium = >$750

semi-custom= >$1000 and most have 1 non-factory part

custom = >$1500 and have > 1 non-factory part.

Now, that solves it all. That wasn't so hard after all.

[Steve J]

Please post pics of the rattle trap you're calling "premium" for $751.

?one non-factory part? One or more non-factory parts only makes a gun "customized."

Semi-custom would better be defined as a hand-fitted pistol produced by a custom shop that offers specific models with some buyer customization available upon request (e.g. Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Nowlin). Several in-house gunsmiths may work each pistol.

Full custom would be defined as a gun built from the ground up by one gunsmith to the customers specifications.

Premium is hard to define as the individual with an FFL who assembles a "full custom" for someone may or may not have the skills to produce a truly premium 1911. ETA: whereas your semi-customs by reputation are almost guaranteed to be premium. Factory pistols like STI, Kimber, Springfield are hard to call premium at any rate unless they were built in the factory's custom shop to a higher standard.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Steve J

[Pezco]

Does anyone make 1911's for <$1K?

[Steve J]

Does anyone make 1911's for <$1K?

A Taurus PT1911 is well under a grand. Some basic factory guns from Colt, Springfield and Kimber are too.

[G-ManBart]

Please post pics of the rattle trap you're calling "premium" for $751.

?one non-factory part? One or more non-factory parts only makes a gun "customized."

Semi-custom would better be defined as a hand-fitted pistol produced by a custom shop that offers specific models with some buyer customization available upon request (e.g. Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Nowlin). Several in-house gunsmiths may work each pistol.

Full custom would be defined as a gun built from the ground up by one gunsmith to the customers specifications.

Premium is hard to define as the individual with an FFL who assembles a "full custom" for someone may or may not have the skills to produce a truly premium 1911. ETA: whereas your semi-customs by reputation are almost guaranteed to be premium. Factory pistols like STI, Kimber, Springfield are hard to call premium at any rate unless they were built in the factory's custom shop to a higher standard.

I'm not so sure you can consider STI's (save the Spartan) quite the same as Kimber and Springfield (at least their mass production models) as they have a hand fit frame/slide that's right up there with in fit with most anything short of a full custom or a Baer (since they like the hard fit method). With only one STI listing for under $1K they're getting into the premium segment. It seems most of what folks call the "premium" market seems to be centered in between $1K and $2K. Anything over that and you're really into full custom prices and paying a lot for the name. I consider something like a Wilson Super Grade to be more of a ultra-premium gun...along with others in that $3-4K ballpark. R,

[chrisjohn]

Have owned/fired extensively Wilson, LB, EB, Nighthawk, full customs from a peerless gunsmiths. All shooters depending on their level of experience will say different things about "premium" 1911s and you already know the adage about the hole in the fourth point of contact, so here goes.

Honestly it boils down to the PARTICULAR example in your hot little hands. Lately Wilson and Nighthawk have not impressed me for the price, but my personal Wilson Classic that is over 15 years old is spectacular and the first Nighthawks I fired were fit as well as anything I've ever handled. Currently these guns are way over priced as an accomplished gunsmith will build you a 1911 for less than retail on a Wilson or Nighthawk. BTW Nighthawk is really just a few former Wilson smiths who decided the market would handle another high end production gun. They were right.

LBs have all been great and always fit extremely well. If you don't like a hard fit 1911, they ain't for you, get an Ed Brown which are the other end of the spectrum, fit correctly and will field strip by hand. Both are accurate as hell, just different philosophies on hard vs soft fit. Supposedly though if you have an issue with your LB, it won't be fixed cheaply. Don't know, never had a problem.

Is the premium 1911 worth it? Yes, but you need enough time behind one to appreciate it. I remember when I thought my Kimber Eclipse target was just the best thing ever. It's still a hell of a gun and honestly it or better yet the Spartan I've got are 9/10s what the 2K guns are.

Support the economy, buy one of each and be able to write rambling posts like this.

[G-ManBart]

Support the economy, buy one of each and be able to write rambling posts like this.

Great idea

[Mistral404]

I own a Trojan. Rarely shoot it anymore. I got a custom built SS that is amazing. I have shot SA, Wilson, and Baers. All nice guns. A friend loaned me his SV SS for an Area match and I shot another friends custom built SV SS.

The two SVs were premiums guns. Their fit and function was like a Porche. The Wilson and Baers were more like Corvettes. All nice stuff but there no comparison on the intangibles.

BTW: My Trojan shoots around 1.2 inches at 25 yrds. Most guns can be made to be reliable and accurate. Custom Premiums guns are way different and IMO worth every penny I spent. But I could afford to spend the money, it did not make be a better shooter per se. It is like owning a Porche vs. Camry.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Mistral404

[GIO]

Fusion might be worth a look. Benny would get my call at 2,500

[G-ManBart]

Fusion might be worth a look.

At best that would get you STI parts with a different name on them...and not even their best parts in some cases

[-JQ-]

Does anyone have experience with Doublestar 1911's? I've seen them in the $1100 range. I saw one at knob creek last year with a crazy ugly finish that I actually liked. It was somewhere between park and a "spray in bedliner" finish. I felt smooth and tight...I came real close. I wouldn't worry too much about holster wear except maybe on the holster

Mainly - I like that their are a local KY company. +1 for the little guys.

[ogiebb]

a Fusion kit is only $675 with some good parts tossed in you might get a nice 1911 for less than a grand

[GIO]

a Fusion kit is only $675 with some good parts tossed in you might get a nice 1911 for less than a grand

I always wondered about the STI - Fusion connection. I know they love them over on the 1911 forum. Bob the owner puts together some pretty cool Pieces.

[G-ManBart]

a Fusion kit is only $675 with some good parts tossed in you might get a nice 1911 for less than a grand

I always wondered about the STI - Fusion connection. I know they love them over on the 1911 forum. Bob the owner puts together some pretty cool Pieces.

The Fusion parts are made by STI. If you look at the one Fusion frame it's identical to the STI Trojan style frame with scallops on the front strap and the same trigger guard undercut. Well that and I have a friend who saw them on the production line at STI

I have a little bit of an issue with Bob, that I'll keep to myself, but they're decent parts and seem to be decent guns, but some of the prices don't exactly make sense to me....taking an STI short block, fitting some parts and then charging $2K+ seems a bit off to me.

Funny thing is the folks over on the 1911 forum probably would bash an STI gun

[ed_henry]

I love my SVI single stack. I have never seen better. 50-60K (about 3years of single stack) one set of springs and all else runs great.

ed

[ed_henry]

Those that own Baers are extremely happy with them,

Not everyone.

A friend bought a Les Baer and a .45 case head rupture cracked the frame in 6 places - to the point where the mainspring fell out of the frame with the retaining pin intact. Les explained that this sort of damage was normal for a case head rupture, but he stands behind his work so he would offer $50 off the price of a new gun. The brass case head showed the typical rupture where the brass blew out at the unsupported part near the head. There was no indication or barrel obstruction or blowout beyond this one part of the case.

The frame was sent to a metallurgical research lab where it was subjected to chemical, photomicrographic, and nital etch analysis. The chemical composition of the "forged" frame was "fully within specifications" for 1141 hot rolled resulphurized steel, with a Rockwell hardness between B82 and B83 as measured at 5 points on the frame. The parallel nature of the manganese-sulfide stringers showed no evidence of the deformation that would be expected from a forging operation.

I still have the frame that was cut for analysis in the back of my safe - I think I even have the block of plastic with the etched and polished sample of the frame used for the photomicrographic 200x/nital etch analysis.

I am not saying that all Les Baers guns exhibit this inconsistency between what they are represented as and what a metallurgical analysis will show, however, this kind of thing does not strike me as something that would happen by accident.

HRB 82/83 is butter soft

1141 resulphurized is not cool for a frame

if this is really the case RIA uses better material.

ed

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I built my own 1911 just the way I wanted it I also changed out barrels in my Kimber Eclipse to Schuemann classics in 40 and 9mm. They will shoot as well as any 1911 I've seen. My favourite 45 1911 for the money is the Spartan. I changed out the recoil spring,mainspring,magwell and a little trigger work and it shoots great. I also added some custom cuts to make it my own. Most of the 1911's will do what you want them to do unless you want a true custom for looks. Thanks, Eric

[gmel]

I have owned a half dozen of each. I had some function problems with a few les Baers but never accuracy problems. All of the Wilsons functioned flawlesly but had a few with accuracy issues. I do not like the wilson fixed sights, my current wilson CQB has their adjustable night sights and is a tack driver. I owned one ed Brown and was dissipointed in the fit of the gun, the finish was beautiful. I have two kimbers that are keepers. I have two 9mm STI's that Trip and Brazo's have worked on, they are keepers. They all make quality guns but they are not all good guns. If i were shooting a match tomorrow I would probably pick my Kimber. If I were going into a life threatening situation, no question the Wilson.

If you know a really good shooter and he has a 1911 he won't sell, that's the one you want!

[Godzilla]

I'm tossing another twig in the fire. A few weeks back I bought a STI Lawman Single Stack forty-five. I cannot believe how accurate it shoots. I don't know if all of them are this accurate, but this one shoots.

As soon as the weather cools a tad I'm going to put it in the Ransom Rest and see what this pistol will do.

Buddy

My STI Trojan is also crazy accurate. I really couldn't believe it when I first tried it....and that's with what is essentially a $75 barrel. Derek put a new Schuemann AET in it for me mostly because I get Schuemann barrels free. I can't wait to see how it'll do with a premium barrel in it. No, it's not a full custom gun, but at this point the only thing original is the frame and slide and they were fit extremely well from the factory. Everything else that I can think of save the plunger spring and sights have been replaced. I expect it'll run just as long and just as well as any $3k full custom, but I would have a bit over $2K in it now if I'd paid for the barrel. I was going to go full custom, but needed it quicker than the wait time would have been. R,

Hey Bartman.....Free....is that the only reason?????????????

[G-ManBart]

I guess I should clarify that. Regardless of anything else, if I was going to put a barrel in that gun it would be a Schuemann AET, (edit to add) heck, even moreso if I was paying for it! Just based off the outstanding results I've had with the AET in my Open gun I'm not inclined to try anything else....over 11K through that barrel so far, not a single brush has ever gone down it and when confirming my zero today I shot a couple of .75" groups in a row at 25yds using my ammo bag as a rest for my wrists....that says it all in my book.

I will say that I hesitate to mess with a gun that's running and that Trojan has treated me well, so it would have been a tough call to pay for a barrel, pay to have it fit, shipping in both directions etc. Saving the cost of the barrel made it a no-brainer.

Since I posted the above I finally got a chance to try it out with the new barrel, although it wasn't really accuracy work. I immediately noticed that it chambers the first round from slide lock much, much smoother than with the stock barrel. It fed all three different types of ammo I tried perfectly and it gobbled up some shorter (1.18") ammo that the stock barrel didn't like to feed from slide lock, so that tells me that the AET profile ramp really does what it's intended to do. The first round I chambered I actually press checked because I wasn't sure I felt it feed a round...it did. I didn't get to shoot it beyond about 15yds and at that range it was just tearing one ragged hole when I shot slowly....it'll take more distance to really show what it'll do, but I'm very excited about it!

Edited September 23, 2009 by Duane Thomas