shred Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 The problem is in our case the "Fee" barely covers the targets, supplies and other expenses of running a local match. If we paid a crew to set up and tear down, that "Fee" would be a lot higher (see: Nationals). So, shoot-n-scooters expecting somebody else to set up and tear down for free are merely freeloading off them. A long while ago we charged $5 extra to leave early without helping tear down. Not only did most of the serial-scooters pay, but the number of helpers went up too. Sometimes I wonder why we don't still do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 In our case we charge $15.00 to shoot. Of that fee $5.00 goes to USPSA and we keep $10.00. That money is used to pay for targets, tape, sticks to hold the targets, staples, tape for hard cover targets, spray paint, props, postage, liability insurance...and the list goes on. In the end, we pretty much break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 (edited) In our case we charge $15.00 to shoot. Of that fee $5.00 goes to USPSA and we keep $10.00. What does USPSA do with the extra $2 you send them for each shooter? Edited September 15, 2003 by rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 rhino: This place is really harsh. OK, so we send them five bucks for a special and three bucks for a monthly match. That's the second mistake I have made this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Sorry . . . I forgot to put a smiley in there. (I went back and inserted) No harshosity intended from this pachyderm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Harshosity...I like that, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I have a problem with "expecting" people to help. The folks who just show up and shoot have every right to do so. You see they "Paid" a fee to shoot the match. "Paid" 20.00 plus any additional funds for special classifiers. That word Fee is why people show up, shoot and leave!! Do you really feel it is a good practice to charge a Fee and expect Free labor? I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Don & Rhino, Maybe you guys don't understand how this game works. Those stages don't just appear overnight. Someone has to set them up, tear them down, score, etc. If everybody had your attitude of "I paid to shoot this, so I don't have to do squat" there wouldn't be a match at all. You do realize that don't you? If it's a big match and I'm paying $100 or more, then I agree, shooters shouldn't be expected to set up. But we're talking about the local level, club matches. Shred is right, we probably could organize it so you could shoot n scoot. I think $50 monthly matches should cover that. But that wouldn't last either. I think Kurt has a good point. If folks don't care to pay their fee and do nothing. Maybe adding 10 bucks to their fee would solve the problem. Either they would get off their lazy ass or at least the people who did help could split the money for lunch and some beers. Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Regardless of how it gets done...you need a team to put the match on. Positive attitudes bring teams together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Don & Rhino, Maybe you guys don't understand how this game works. Those stages don't just appear overnight. Someone has to set them up, tear them down, score, etc. If everybody had your attitude of "I paid to shoot this, so I don't have to do squat" there wouldn't be a match at all. You do realize that don't you? It's interesting that you presume so much about someone's knowledge when they disagree with you. I didn't see Don say he felt that way personally, and I know I didn't say it. What I agreed with was his point is that there is nothing inherently wrong with paying your fee to shoot and then just shooting. It may not be the greatest thing for the sport, but it doesn't do any more damage than people who insist on complaining about "them" and trying to make them feel guilty or otherwise responsible for the demise of the sport. So please don't attribute an attitude to me that I don't have. I just choose not to impugn the character of those who choose to do otherwise. As to what I "realize" or don't . . . Heh. Maybe I'm just too ignorant to "realize" the Gospel According to SmittyFL. Maybe I haven't been to enough matches since I've only been shooting since 1995. Maybe when I used to show up early to setup and takedown for every match and take my turns as RO at my original home club I just didn't get a good picture of what it took. Maybe since then when I've mostly just done scoring for two or three clubs every single month, I just didn't get it then either. I will admit I don't do much of the physical labor anymore, so maybe that's why I don't "realize" it. Apparently I just don't know enough! That's the only possible explanation as to why I could deign to disagree! Imagine the nerve I have! Just IMAGINE! (btw . . . for Ron A. and any others who follow my subtext, the above is an example of very mild "harshosity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Regardless of how it gets done...you need a team to put the match on. Positive attitudes bring teams together. I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 MILD HARSHOSITY.......MILD HARSHOSITY.......I'm about to cry!!! Rhino, maybe you didn't read Don's statement that you quoted and agreed with the same way I did. "Do you really feel it is a good practice to charge a Fee and expect Free labor?" That's the attitude I was refering to. It sounds like Don thinks the "fee" is paying someone to make a living setting up and putting on a match. All the labor at the club level is free. To enjoy our sport, that's what it takes. Obviously everybody can't be there to set up, nor is everybody needed. But you know the people I'm talking about. If someone rolls in 10 minutes before the match, doesn't do much during the match, and rolls out when their last round is fired.....yeah, I have a problem with that. As I said before, maybe this goes in the hate forum. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.....scales.....skin.....whatever rhino's have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 I think rhinos have skin. Very thick skin, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 When I have to drive 1 and a 1/2 to 2 hours to attend a local match, I'm rolling in and rolling out. "Guests" who do the same to come to our local match are fine. I would be embarrassed not to do my share during the match, and at least help tear down the last stage I shoot. Folks who consistently shoot and scoot are missing more than just a little work. What was it "Hoot" replied in the movie "Blackhawk Down" when he was talking about the folks back home asking him why he did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 I'll have to watch it a few dozen more times . . . I forgot already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don45cal Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 MILD HARSHOSITY.......MILD HARSHOSITY.......I'm about to cry!!! Rhino, maybe you didn't read Don's statement that you quoted and agreed with the same way I did. "Do you really feel it is a good practice to charge a Fee and expect Free labor?" That's the attitude I was refering to. It sounds like Don thinks the "fee" is paying someone to make a living setting up and putting on a match. I'm sorry but it's NOT an attitude. I help all I can at matches even when I drive 2 hours to shoot it. It is a fact when you charge a fee some people expect to get served. Simple. The sport can not survive without volunteers but you can not force our ideals on people. Some people pay to play, some people like me pay, plays and learns by helping out. (Bad grammer go figure, sorry) Sorry folks, didn't mean to create a stir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Johnson Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Just out of curiosity, do you guys cut shooters some slack that have to drive a long distance to shoot? There are two IPSC clubs that I have to drive a little over an hour and a half to shoot. Think I pay around 10-15 to shoot 4 stages plus a classifier. I've asked the head honcho's at both clubs and they don't care if I leave before the reshoots. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Just out of curiosity, do you guys cut shooters some slack that have to drive a long distance to shoot? I certainly do, but I'm just one person. I'm not only a slacker . . . I'm also a slack giver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Hi guys, I stumbled across this website today, and I think it just about sums things up the feelings of many "movers & shakers" at the club level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 A couple of months after I started shooting the club I began with held an RO seminar. Everyone was encouraged to attend and I did. Several of us then took turns as RO throughout the evening, making life much more enjoyable for the one gentleman who had been doing all the RO work. This was an indoor range, new club, with a weekly one stage match and when I got there after work the match was already set up. Nearly everyone seemed to help tear down and we got it done post haste. I began shooting with another club which held a monthly outdoor match. Then another. And another. I no longer have a club....I have 4. As they figured out I was certified as an RO the invitations came and were accepted to work matches. I usually stuck around long enough to help tear down. Then they started asking me to help set up. Okay, I'm easy. And I started doing that as well and I am happy to be of service. The point of this? As a relatively new shooter, paying $10 to $15 per match (hey, I'm paying to shoot this match, you want me to work too?) I was happy to help when asked. Being basicly a self centered, insensitive, thoughtless sort it did take someone asking me to get me to make the effort to show up the day before the match to help set up. Perhaps there are other self centered, insensitive, thoughtless sorts out there who would help set up and tear down, maintain the web page, score, paste, stuff envelopes, etc if they were asked? Some of us are just shy retiring types........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I stumbled across this website today, and I think it just about sums things up the feelings of many "movers & shakers" at the club level. I've seen several letters like that in the past and it's kind of scary how you could change the names and the rest of the text is almost always the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I have not been apart of a club that went under or was lost for any reason. But I know people who have and I imagine it would suck. I'm also apart of 4 clubs shooting every Sunday and one has a mini match every Fri night. I really don't mind setting up, I enjoy coming up with stages. And when I shoot revolver I make damn sure I'm there to set up to protect my interests Sometimes my work schedule prevents me from being there early. We have guys that help often, guys that are always there, guys that are never there. The bottom line is it takes a lot to put on a match every month. Maybe some people don't realize that and we do have to ask for help every now and then. Some people will be glad to and some won't.......That's life. We all love this sport, maybe some aspects are more work than we like to do on the weekend but we have to do what needs to be done. Or risk driving the club pres away or worse losing the club all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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