Setting an overtravel screw

[kgunz11]

So how do you know when you have your overtravel screw set properly?

I have an STI Edge and have been having some "follow" issues since I installed an SV trigger. Not a lot, but enough to bother me.

[JThompson]

This prob isn't right but it works for me. I'm sure Howard will come along and say I'm not doing it right.

I crank it in until it doesn't fire and then back it out til it does then I go another half turn to a turn.

Edited January 25, 2009 by JThompson

[kgunz11]

I was reading this thread, but it quickly went over my head.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...vertravel+screw

Do you screw it all the way in and then back it out some?

[JThompson]

I was reading this thread, but it quickly went over my head.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...vertravel+screw

Do you screw it all the way in and then back it out some?

No. If the gun is firing I just crank it in a bit at a time and keep trying to fire it.... when it doesn't fire you went to far and then i back it off a bit at a time til it does fire and then I keep backing another 1/2-1 turn

[kgunz11]

OK I'm going to try that.

[Braxton1]

Something that you must be careful of when setting the O/T screw: Ensure that, when you press the trigger and the hammer falls, the tripped sear clears the half-cock notch as the notch passes it. You can check this by slowly lowering the hammer with your thumb after pressing the trigger. You should not feel a "bump" as the half-cock notch passes the sear nose.

If you don't do this check and it is bumping, your trigger job will be ruined in short order.

[kgunz11]

Wow, I didn't know what I was missing. That should bring those .22 splits down a good bit.

Checked the hammer several times and can feel no "bump" as it passes half cock.

Gonna get run it hard tomorrow and see if it still follows.

Thanks for the help guys!

[eerw]

if the problem persists..might check the trigger bow..if IIRC.the SV trigger bow is a different dimension than the STI trigger bow..if it is longer it is taking out the necessary play the the 1911 trigger needs to properly reset.

[kgunz11]

That could very well be a problem too and was mentioned to me earlier this evening.

If it continues to follow the plastic STI trigger is going back in there.

I like the bright shiny SVI, but I want it to be 100% reliable.

[JThompson]

Have you tried putting a bit more pressure on the sear spring? I'm not a smith, but I had one that was following and I just put a smidgen more pressure on the spring and it cleared up. If you have a trigger pull gage you can follow the Brazos directions, but I didn't have one.

[kgunz11]

I don't have one, tried to buy one on here once but IMA45DV8 beat me to it by mere seconds.

I tried the drop test on it and it wont follow.

So I need to put a little more bend on the left leg of the spring?

[JThompson]

I'd wait for Howard or someone to chime in... I don't know enough to be giving you advice. I do know that the SVI trigger and bow take some work to fit properly.

[kgunz11]

Yeah I was told that. If it continues to follow I'll just put the old one back in there. I don't want it bad enough to have to send it off to be tinkered with.

[bkeeler]

Take a look here this may help.

Explains things pretty well.

BK

[BSeevers]

Something that you must be careful of when setting the O/T screw: Ensure that, when you press the trigger and the hammer falls, the tripped sear clears the half-cock notch as the notch passes it. You can check this by slowly lowering the hammer with your thumb after pressing the trigger. You should not feel a "bump" as the half-cock notch passes the sear nose.

If you don't do this check and it is bumping, your trigger job will be ruined in short order.

This is correct.

I'm not Howard but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night

[HSMITH]

Something that you must be careful of when setting the O/T screw: Ensure that, when you press the trigger and the hammer falls, the tripped sear clears the half-cock notch as the notch passes it. You can check this by slowly lowering the hammer with your thumb after pressing the trigger. You should not feel a "bump" as the half-cock notch passes the sear nose.

If you don't do this check and it is bumping, your trigger job will be ruined in short order.

This is correct.

I'm not Howard but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night

LOL, Howard is a dink.

Agreed on how to check it. Best thing to do is take it OUT, a little over travel isn't a bad thing and a lot is better. Try shooting it without it, you might be surprised how much better you shoot without the trigger being able to go solid and influence the entire gun as it is firing....

A little travel in the take up so you can properly prep the trigger and a lot of overtravel to keep you from yanking the gun when it goes solid makes a gun easier to shoot.

[JThompson]

This was a good topic for me too. Bill mentioned the half cock test, so went and grabbed mine and it failed. I had moved the SV trigger from one gun to another... I had about .026 pretravel, but it was dropping from half cock. I worked the bow over and got a little more pretravel .038 and it works as it should now.

How much do you run in yours Howard...?

Edited January 25, 2009 by JThompson

[Radical Precision Designs]

Something that you must be careful of when setting the O/T screw: Ensure that, when you press the trigger and the hammer falls, the tripped sear clears the half-cock notch as the notch passes it. You can check this by slowly lowering the hammer with your thumb after pressing the trigger. You should not feel a "bump" as the half-cock notch passes the sear nose.

If you don't do this check and it is bumping, your trigger job will be ruined in short order.

This is correct.

I'm not Howard but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night

LOL, Howard is a dink.

Agreed on how to check it. Best thing to do is take it OUT, a little over travel isn't a bad thing and a lot is better. Try shooting it without it, you might be surprised how much better you shoot without the trigger being able to go solid and influence the entire gun as it is firing....

A little travel in the take up so you can properly prep the trigger and a lot of overtravel to keep you from yanking the gun when it goes solid makes a gun easier to shoot.

Noooo ! Howard is not a dink ... but I think he plays one on TV !!! LOL.

There is more than just sear pressure or parts geometry to get things copacetic. There is the "human" element, like shooting routine habits. Heck, the original J.M. Browning design didn't even have an overtravel set screw. So someone decided to tweak it and make it better (someone doing things just like I like too, LOL!) to make the "gamesman" in all of us come out. Problem is sometimes we push our equipment more than our personal attributes (fingers, reflexes, etc.) can handle, and we expect our equipment to compensate for it as if it was magic.

Darn it !!! Your sear angles and hooks geometry MUST be right, and your spring pressures (including MS housing/hammer spring) must be balanced. When You push that sear/disconnector assembly back, as soon as the disconnector does its thing by removing the sear from the equation, then you are at the mercy of the correlation between those mating surfaces and the integrity of the supporting parts (like sear and hammer pins and frame indexing) and the necessary springs influence to maintain the proper timing. It is not that complicated, but as hammer hooks get smaller and the secondary sear angle gets larger, things start to go the wrong way. The over travel set screw has not magic to it, or that much influence unless you do not follow actual manufacturers instructions in setting them. That is they get in the way of other necessary functions of your gun. like bumping your half cock notch or not letting the gun actually fire. If it is giving you trouble, then don't try to micro-manage it until you find if everything else (including your shooting skils) are well balanced. The pre and over-travel control options can be abused to your detriment and can be pushed to where it could become a safety issue.

So ... first make sure your gun works 150% as it is supposed to before you go tinkering with it to make it better. (Gee ... that sounds like my logo !! LOL )

Edited January 25, 2009 by Radical Precision Designs

[HSMITH]

Jim, I run all of the pre-travel I can get. There is no reason not to, even good trigger slappers are not adversely affected by pre-travel. More travel also lets sear riding trigger prep shooters do it better. More is better in this case IMO.

Venry is right here, I skipped through the post somewhat the first time. But, lets assume (and know where that usually gets us) that the hammer and sear geometry was correct before the trigger swap. It will still be correct now, but if the bow is too long it could be causing the disconnector to bump the sear as it resets and that can cause hammer follow. It is pretty rare, things have to just right (or just wrong) for it to happen.....

If we don't assume anything, and we know it is best not to, hammer follow usually points to hammer and sear geometry not being right. Sear spring pressure isn't the problem if it is anywhere near reasonable, remember that with perfect geometry these things will run 1 pound trigger pulls so the actual pressure needed on the sear spring is minute.

[kgunz11]

I can tell you one thing, a light trigger and very little over travel makes for splits so fast the timer can't get a reading. LoL Now I know what a G18 would feel like in .40. I had a couple doubles and backed out on the set screw some. Everything seems good to go now.

[JThompson]

Jim, I run all of the pre-travel I can get. There is no reason not to, even good trigger slappers are not adversely affected by pre-travel. More travel also lets sear riding trigger prep shooters do it better. More is better in this case IMO.

Venry is right here, I skipped through the post somewhat the first time. But, lets assume (and know where that usually gets us) that the hammer and sear geometry was correct before the trigger swap. It will still be correct now, but if the bow is too long it could be causing the disconnector to bump the sear as it resets and that can cause hammer follow. It is pretty rare, things have to just right (or just wrong) for it to happen.....

If we don't assume anything, and we know it is best not to, hammer follow usually points to hammer and sear geometry not being right. Sear spring pressure isn't the problem if it is anywhere near reasonable, remember that with perfect geometry these things will run 1 pound trigger pulls so the actual pressure needed on the sear spring is minute.

I had one more follow today and backed out the over travel screw another turn and it's running well. I still won't trust it until I run some more rounds through it. I've given it about all the travel I can on the pre side.

The bow was to long to start off with... but I messaged it into good shape, or at least what I think is good shape. I used trigger pull gage to set the disconnecter and sear tensions. I know the geometry is good because it's the same as it was.

Now I guess I just pump a couple K through ti and see how it goes.

[rvb]

... but if the bow is too long it could be causing the disconnector to bump the sear as it resets and that can cause hammer follow. It is pretty rare, things have to just right (or just wrong) for it to happen.....

Just two nights ago I found something similar with a .45 I put together.

I like some over-travel in my triggers. I don't like them to stop right after the trigger breaks. I was adjusting my overtravel stop to get it where I wanted it. Simultaneously I started seeing hammer follow and even the occassional double. I now have a couple thousand rounds on the trigger work I did and just assumed I had screwed that up and was about to order more parts and practice some more when I decided to look at it closer.

What I found was that the SVI bow is a little long. It was pushing back enough that the disconnector is hitting the sear spring, causing the spring to not put tension on the sear. As I was adding in over-travel, I was lifting the spring off the sear. At least I'm 99% sure that's where it was hitting. I saw some wear there, too. I guess I'll double check it's not the disconnector hitting the sear as you mention (thanks for that tip).

I have a stirrup die and thought about working on the trigger to get it to work, but I decided I never liked the feel of it and I'd rather put in an sti trigger that matches the feel of my open gun so I'm just going to order a new trigger (and sear spring in case it is bent out of correct shape contributing to the problem).

-rvb

[JThompson]

... but if the bow is too long it could be causing the disconnector to bump the sear as it resets and that can cause hammer follow. It is pretty rare, things have to just right (or just wrong) for it to happen.....

Just two nights ago I found something similar with a .45 I put together.

I like some over-travel in my triggers. I don't like them to stop right after the trigger breaks. I was adjusting my overtravel stop to get it where I wanted it. Simultaneously I started seeing hammer follow and even the occassional double. I now have a couple thousand rounds on the trigger work I did and just assumed I had screwed that up and was about to order more parts and practice some more when I decided to look at it closer.

What I found was that the SVI bow is a little long. It was pushing back enough that the disconnector is hitting the sear spring, causing the spring to not put tension on the sear. As I was adding in over-travel, I was lifting the spring off the sear. At least I'm 99% sure that's where it was hitting. I saw some wear there, too. I guess I'll double check it's not the disconnector hitting the sear as you mention (thanks for that tip).

I have a stirrup die and thought about working on the trigger to get it to work, but I decided I never liked the feel of it and I'd rather put in an sti trigger that matches the feel of my open gun so I'm just going to order a new trigger (and sear spring in case it is bent out of correct shape contributing to the problem).

-rvb

If this has one more issue in the next week, I'm swapping it back as well.

[jjanglin]

SVI trigger stuff can bea bugger to get to work in an STI unless you know what is going on like

Howard said, I shot several 45 auto in the military that didnt have an over travel screw.

I like take up and I dont care for not enough over travel in my guns.

I see a lot of shooters worry about the splits they get but they dont hit the target so what

good does it do.

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[Radical Precision Designs]

SVI trigger stuff can bea bugger to get to work in an STI unless you know what is going on like

Howard said, I shot several 45 auto in the military that didnt have an over travel screw.

I like take up and I dont care for not enough over travel in my guns.

I see a lot of shooters worry about the splits they get but they dont hit the target so what

good does it do.

Jim/Pa

Sailors

:roflol: LOL !!!!! You are so right !!!!

I like the SVI/Infinity triggers for a few reasons (especially the interchangeability of shoes). I did notice earlier on that on some guns the pre-travel was reduced greatly, sometimes not needing to adjust the pre-travel tabs. I normally do stake the disconnector to change its extra slop anyways, so by staking it in the opposite direction I can restore some of it to where it is just right. At other times I have had to reshape the bow to add some more working room. But all in all I think it is and advantage, as I don't have to bend the freaking tabs all the way to cure excessive pre-travel ... if that is what it is wanted. And very often I do get request to pretty much eliminate to the maximum both pre and post travel for maximum control. Like a few of us, I know we all have our own "little" formulas that makes our trigger work known and requested by shooters who have tried our work. It is like finger prints ... That is why I offer my action work with "free" adjustments included, as not every shooter wants a "cookie mold" trigger. A little bit more here ... a little bit less there !! G_d bless America, the land of free choices !!!! ( It is malfunctions in the middle of a stage that really suck. )

When properly installed and tuned within the design's parameters, all the "sweet" new choices for custom aftermarket parts is a true blessing. We are truly in a niche where so many other firearms would like to be. Sometimes these "so many" choices can be a problem when we do expect that all of them be just a "drop in" part, and not to interfere with other parts in the system, but then find out that something else is not compatible, or needs some adjustment. I have installed and tuned a few customer supplied parts that later on the customer came back and requested the old (replaced) part be put back in place. Not that there was anything wrong ... it just didn't meet the perceived expectation in results. As somebody said: "It is all good !!".