kgunz11 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Since we already have quite the extensive course set up for our Practical Marksman Challenge, I was thinking, it shouldn't be too hard to make a 3 gun match out of it. Add a few more pistol targets and some steel and the additional set up would be minimal. I've never attended a 3 gun match, just watching one on TV now (Shooting Gallery RM3G), and I realize what we already have with the addition of a few shotgun targets would make for an awesome course. So if we built this huge 3 gun course, is there enough interest in another match on the schedule? We have our current set up on a 2200 acre piece of property. For our precision long range rifle and combat handgun match we are running 70+ shooters over 2 weekends. A total of over 25 events in the match now and more than 100 long range rifle shots. The average is around 500 yards, but we can tweak that a little bit to make it a little easier for the short range guys. The property is just west of Phenix City and South of Opelika, Alabama. It could offer a 3 gun match of monumental proportion if there was enough interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You say when. Peter Adams FY-39604 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have a lot of 12" round steel plates I can put up, we can add the clay pigeon target holders... How many rounds of each gun are typical in a COF? How long does it take to run a shooter through each one? How many slots are there typically in a match like this? I think we can run 80 shooters simultaneously with about 32 stages in a 2 day period. Like I said, I've never been to a small 3 gun match, much less one fo the larger ones. What's the entry fee usually like? How far do you guys like to shoot? I have tons of questions, and this is something that would probably have to happen in short order, meaning before July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineshootah Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 32 stages is a ton of stages..... "BIG" depends on if you are talking USPSA match or "outlaw" rules. 32 rounds per stage is "BIG" for USPSA. 60-100 rounds per stage is "BIG" for other matches. (multigun) Are you talking three gun (one gun per stage) or multigun, multiple guns per stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I was thinking some stages with all 3 guns, some with 2, but never any with just 1 unless it was a rifle accuracy stage on multiple targets from various positional shooting stances. I would allow the membership here to decide what rules format they want to use. It would be pretty easy for me to come up with anything you guys want to see. Like I said, we have 2200 acres and a long range rifle course is in place as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 If there were squads of 10 shooters at the time, we have 4 main firing points. I can have 2 squads at each firing point running at the same time. At each forward firing point I could have 8 stages. Each squad shoots the 4 stages and then rotates. After both squads have finished at a given firing point we move them to the next one. You shoot 16 stages in one day, and then we could finish up with 8 stages on the following day for a total of 24 stages. That way after the shooting ends on Sunday we can eat and do the prize table and awards banquet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 10 to 12 atages is suffiecient but you would be talking 100 150 shooters for a weekend, a good rule of thumb is that a stage needs to be able to be done in five minutes or less per shooter, thats getting him on the line ready to shoot shooting , scoring and resetting teh stage so the next guy is ready to go, the average shooter needs to be able to shoot the course in less than 100 seconds to make all this happen unless the stage is all long range rifle self reseting steel where there in no reset time. Average entry for a 3 gun, sorta depends on stages and prizes, $75 for trophy matches, 200 for bigger outlaw matches where everyone is going to the prize table (combination of Sponsor donations and purchased prizes), Sponsorship is getting harder so prizes will be tougher, but so long as a match offers good shooter value, they will come! Shooter Value = fun stages, good officiating, good prize distribution for the price and good round count. 32 stages is a world shoot event, it is great but logistics is the hard part, most initial efforts at matches run into issues with the support logistics, RO's, Shade, water, reset times, score keeping, extra targets, etc. Its not for lack of will or trying but as a friend often says "hope is not a strategy" at your service for input, and if the schedule allows, sweat and labor jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhearn Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Sounds great. Lets play. I admire anyone who is willing to step up and run a match. Looking forward to hearing your decision. MHearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 As I stated, we already have most of the COF already set. Just add a few targets and it would be good to go. Certainly world class 3 gunners can run through one of these courses faster that our precision marskman. As for the logistics, we have that covered. The more I think about it the more I see how I can work it out. Shoot 6 stages, do lunch, shoot 6 more. On the second day we could run an additional 8 stages and call it a day. As for the prize table, I am wrapping one of those up now, I really don't want to do another one just yet. $30,000 worth of goodies is more of a challenge than setting up the COF. I might make it a trophy match so that it can remain affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think the best route is to limit the match to 80 people. I guess I could come up with some sort of prize table since there is a large market of 3 gun manufactures that aren't in my list of PR sponsors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineshootah Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 a good rule of thumb is that a stage needs to be able to be done in five minutes or less per shooter, thats getting him on the line ready to shoot shooting , scoring and resetting teh stage so the next guy is ready to go, the average shooter needs to be able to shoot the course in less than 100 seconds to make all this happen unless the stage is all long range rifle self reseting steel where there in no reset time.jc I think that 5 min # is solid for pistol stages. If you are talking "big" multigun stages, I would double that estimate, especially when figuring prepositioned firearms, and clearing each, plus the time reset / tape all targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 If we did this in June, we have longer days, but then you have to consider competitor fatigue. For our PR match, we have one COF that requires the competitor to engage a 6" steel diamond at a distance of between 120-130 yards from a barricade. They then run 30 yards and enter a shoot house where they will engage 10 IPSC targets with their handgun. Upon leaving the shoot house they run another 30 yards and engage 2 more 6" diamonds with their rifle. They have a 5 min par time and anything not engaged in that 5 minutes will incur an FTE penalty plus the cost of the mikes. This isn't too bad with 10 guys in a squad, but the last guy has to wait 45 minutes to get his turn, and the first guy finished has to wait 45 minutes for everyone else to finish to move on to the next course of fire. So to break up this "dead time" we throw in a pistol event for the other guys to be doing at this stage. This event is unique from other events in our match as it only allows for one competitor to run at the time. At other stages we have 4-5 events going on simultaneously. Some even allow the group of 18 to be on the line all firing at the same time. Because of the speed of a 3 gun match, we should be able to run through a lot of our stages much quicker. We just take a couple of our long range rifle targets and shorten the distance on them and add some pistol or shotgun targets to them. I'll probably lose a few nights sleep thinking over this. So what does everyone think of the Horner scoring method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Bobby - Get with Jeff (benelli2), David Tapp (dt1) and probably SFC Johnson from the AMU and pick their brain. Between the 3 of them, they know what they're doing out your way and after seeing what you have and listening to what you have in mind, y'all could probably work something out. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Talked to Benelli2 and Dt1 one tonight. We plan to get together the first of Feb to look things over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazmag Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 im sure the crew from tallahassee would be more than happy to attend.... get with springy / michale he has set up some fun on for us here......ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Bobby - Get with Jeff (benelli2), David Tapp (dt1) and probably SFC Johnson from the AMU and pick their brain. Between the 3 of them, they know what they're doing out your way and after seeing what you have and listening to what you have in mind, y'all could probably work something out.Rich Thats what I would do If I was going to put one on. Get some help form the guys that do it, they will lend a base of shooter to your match and help guys like me make our minds about traveling 900 miles to get to the shoot. I just meet the Jeff and David and SFC Johnson this past Ft Benning shoot , but if You can't get along good with them guys you can't get along with any body. They are good people. and will lend first rate credibility to your event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Pick a cooler month for us old guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike P Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I don't think getting decent turnout to a new 3-gun match in your area would be a problem. It sounds as though you have a great facility and props. Getting with Jeff, David, Michael, and SFC Johnson, (Slowsure is another good one) for advice is a really good idea too. Since you are planning on holding it in summer, why not sign up to shoot either Blueridge, or the upcoming Larue tactical match. It might help to illustrate and put in context some of the advice you get from the experienced multigun MDs. Good luck with it. If I can, I'll certainly come participate and or work. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 All good info so far. If I can help in any way, don't hesitate to get in touch. We cant have enough good 3-gun matches in your area. Hats off to you for even thinking about doing a big match! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 +1 to what Mike P has to say. You have some good ideas, some ideas I can see where you got them, but to get the true understanding of three gunning, jump in and go to a match. I guarantee a huge lightbulb will come on, and if you can't sleep at night now, wait till you try to sleep with that light bulb on! I think it's great that someone is willing to step up and have another match. Go shoot a match or two, and you will be hooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 For our PR match, we have one COF that requires the competitor to engage a 6" steel diamond at a distance of between 120-130 yards from a barricade. They then run 30 yards and enter a shoot house where they will engage 10 IPSC targets with their handgun. Upon leaving the shoot house they run another 30 yards and engage 2 more 6" diamonds with their rifle. I've only done a few 3 gun matches, but the ones I've done either had you ground your weapon when you finished with it and switched to another or, occasionally, load a limited number of rounds in the rifle, shoot it till empty, then leave it slung while finishing with pistol. How would you handle your transitions from rifle to pistol and then back to rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb32 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'm all for it. I like being in Alabama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt1 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Guys, This location has tremendous potential for a big time 3-gun match. The matches currently held on the property (near Auburn, AL) include a popular 1000yd match rifle match and the Practical Marksman Challenge. This will be the first time a 3-gun match will have been held on the range. There are lots of wide open shooting areas and the stages will lend themselves to a "natural terrain" format which is very nice for long distance rifle shooting. Bobby has put a lot of thought into this already and has reached out to several folks who have experience shooting and running 3-gun matches. This will help shorten the learning curve for him as a match director and should make the first match down there a very good one. We'll steer him in the right direction regarding things like number of stage design, format, round count, squad organization & size etc. I suspect it will end up being a so called "outlaw" match as opposed to a USPSA event. Other than Ft. Benning and Area 6, we don't have a lot of nice, big 3-gun matches in the deep SE. I think a June match would draw a good sized turnout. Stay tuned for more details, this might really be one to put on your calendar. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The key to everything is getting Linda Chico and Sandra (Ms. Kitty) to be your match organizer/score keeper. They've got it down to a science. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The key to everything is getting Linda Chico and Sandra (Ms. Kitty) to be your match organizer/score keeper. They've got it down to a science.Rich Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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