Walmart Firearms

[TBF]

Is there any difference between Walmart stuff and the products distributed to others?

I think it's a rumor started by gun dealers because they can't buy firearms by the freight car load like Wallyworld can.

At least I hope thats the case, cuz I just bought a nice little Savage mod.10 300 WSM for $350.00 on clearance.

But the comments from some of my associates indicate they would NEVER buy a firearm from Walmart for reasons including factory seconds, inferior quality compared to the products shipped to other vendors ( failed QC ). And supposedly one guy even has been told by several gunsmiths that they won't even work on one of them, and can tell it came from Walmart.

Like I said before I do not believe this, but can anyone shed light on where the rumor started , or might it have some truth?

Travis F.

[Chriss Grube]

Wal-mart buys gun just like the other dealers except in bulk. They do contract for special runs of guns. The ugly stocked model 70 in the short mags can only be found at WM. I bought a 1100 Rem there a couple years ago on clearance for 270 bucks and it shots like any other one. Be careful the milk there comes from special cows that don't have enough spots for the real grocery stores.

[SmittyFL]

Most gun smiths/shops don't like WM because they are putting the little guy out of business. Mom and Pop grocery stores, clothing stores, etc. I don't really care about other stores, but I do try to support local gun shops. The guy at WM doesn't know anything about guns anyway.

[Ironman]

TBF,

I go to Wal-Mart for 9 mm and 12-gauge ammunition. I have heard that they will make special purchases that may not use the same kind of wood for the stocks as sold at other suppliers. I have also heard the "seconds" rumor is not true.

Jim

[joshua]

I've seen the Ugly Stocked Winchester 70 in WSM at a Sportsman's Warehouse store in Utah. Winchester have the Shadow model as a regular catalog item. Whoever designed that stock should get paddled with it, I really mean some serious schuwacking!

[shred]

My guess is like anybody else in the business of selling retail, wal-mart wants some product differentiation-- so they'll order custom wood and such on occasion, if it means they'll have something to sell nobody else does. The rest of the time, they'll probably get off-the-shelf product to sell.

(as an aside, when I was in the retail computer-manufacturing business, we used to make different plastic case pieces for each major electronics retailer-- that way they'd each get a slightly different "model" and customers couldn't make them price-match sale prices, even though the guts were exactly the same. I'm positive this is still being done in the consumer electronics business, at a minimum)

[j1b]

You guys know I have to bite on this - I work for Wal-Mart at the home office. Actually - I buy merchandise for Wal-Mart to carry and although I don't buy firearms for the company (and never have) I know the companies philosophy on merchandising and buying inside and out.

I would be willing to guarantee that the firearms we buy are not inventoried seperate from the supply that the manufactures use to provide any firearms shop. For us - it wouldn't be good for business because it would destroy the credibility of our assortment if we carried inferior goods that had an established quality expectation. Specifically in guns it would be a horrid decision to buy lesser quality guns from the plant.

There are a lot of factors that go into this. A lot of business strategy factors. The biggest reason WM WANTS to carry the exact same assortment is so we can beat the competition fair and square. Nothing is more impactful from a price/image standpoint than to say "Hey - I've got the same thing here at a lower price" It builds trust in the customer - something we want to continually do. Of course the risk here is getting beat on an item, but if we are doing our jobs right that shouldn't happen.

In some categories like furniture we do things to get to a price point. Maybe we'll take an asthetic cut off of a desk to bring down the cost or something. But in those types of categories no retailer carries the same assortment. It lends itself to a little more flexibility. I don't buy furniture anymore - but I did so I know the market pretty well.

A lot of people hate Wal-Mart because of the impact we have on small business but personally I think Wal-Mart is good for small business. It forces them to adjust assortment. Wal-Mart carries rifles, but it doesn't carry the whole line of Remington rifles, or Weatherby rifles. We carry an assortment that cators to the needs of the bulk of our customers however often times that doesn't meet the needs of the more educated customers. If I want one of the new Remington 700's in 308 with the stainless fluted bull barrel - I won't be buying it at Wal-Mart. That is where the small business owner can get ahead. They know their market better than we ever will and that makes them better prepared to serve the specific needs of that market. I grew up on Kodiak Island AK and we put a WM up there a couple of years ago. The sporting goods store I used to work at up there called in a panic - but I told them don't worry. WM doesn't know that a "flash N Glo" lure is the best lure for Coho, WM doesn't know that Extra-Tuf boots are all that the fisherman will use. WM doesn't even carry Carhart products which is what all the fisherman use up there.

That's my take - a long post to say that in general the assortment you find @ WM is probably going to be similar to what you'd find at any Sproting goods store.

JB

[Patrick Sweeney]

To go on a tangent from Wal-Mart, I heard form sources (some years ago) inside the wholsale end of things that Remington got burned by K-Mart. What happened was K-Mart placed its usual big order from Big Green, with product delivered before Labor Day for the hunting season.

Remington slipped up and OK'd 90 day terms. After hunting season was up, K-Mart shipped all the guns left over, including all the shop-worn demos and handling pieces.

After that, it was cash on the barrelhead before Remington would ship them so much as a cleaning kit.

Any truth to it? Or is it just Urban myth, Gun Division?

[TBF]

. We carry an assortment that cators to the needs of the bulk of our customers however often times that doesn't meet the needs of the more educated customers.

I just know that says something about me, but I can't figure out what it is...

Travis F.

[Wakal]

As a bulky educated customer , I still shop at Wally-World. Just...late at night or early in the morning. I've trained the sporting goods section to just take the lock off the ammo cabinets as soon as they see me

Back on topic, I've heard the K-Mart rumor too. Anyone have any facts on it?

Alex

[j1b]

Travis

We get 90 Million people in the doors a week. Trust me - you aren't alone.

When K-mart filled Ch. 11 they screwed a bunch of companies out of cash. As well as some long term associates. All so Chuck Conoway could make his big money. They are a good company, and should be in a different position today. Unfortunately they put a leadership team in place that was only looking out for themselves.

Of course they are my competition - but I feel bad for the guy who worked for them for 20 years and lost everything. Or for the small company that needed the K-mart check to stay in business. Personally I hope Conoway goes to jail - then he'll get to experience the same thing he did to all of the good K-mart employees out there.

*note - this isn't a Wal-Mart opinion - its just mine*

JB

[gm iprod]

But also the opinion of many other people. We have K-Mart here in New Zealand and they are prohibited from selling firearms and ammo. So I am safe for another week or two.

The nastiness that surrounded the failure in the US filtered doen here and the company was sold to a local consortium and is now seperate from the US K-Mart group. But they are still a bunch of assholes to get money out of. A freind of mine is a credit controller for a large importer and they dread the K call when the end of the month comes along.

[Carlos]

JB- thanks for de-bunking this one. Other places on the net- like Glocktalk.com - seem to eat up rumor w/o regard to evidence or even claimed personal experience. On the up -side, Wal Mart sells a limited selection of guns at excellent prices & while the sales staff is usually not familiar w/ firearms or ammunition, you can save many $$ if you know what you are buying. The plain-jane Rem 870s that occasionally go on sale for around $235 are one example. Downside is that Walmart is not designed to efficiently handle special orders for firearms. I foolishly tried to order a Remington 700 VS in .308 through the Hunt Valley store in MD a few years back. Took weeks for the manager to answer the note I left for her & I never bothered to call her back at that point. Walmart is good at what it does & I do not begrudge them for not catering to my every retail whim. Would be nice if they could manage to keep the Winchester Value Pack 9mm on the shelf though.

Shred wrote: "(as an aside, when I was in the retail computer-manufacturing business, we used to make different plastic case pieces for each major electronics retailer-- that way they'd each get a slightly different "model" and customers couldn't make them price-match sale prices, even though the guts were exactly the same. I'm positive this is still being done in the consumer electronics business, at a minimum)"

Ever try to comparison shop a mattress? They pull the same stunts w/ a zillion different names for essentially the same mattress. Any retail product that can regularly be sold for 50% off was overpriced to begin with.

[EricW]

Go shop for a washing machine sometime. The $299 Whirlpool has the exact same guts as the $599 Kitchenaid. The only difference: a couple extra knobs on front that you probably will never use.

The real problem is that marketing has become so disingenuous that all trust on the part of the consumer is gone. So, urban legends like this one about Walmart, although wrong, seem totally plausible.

[j1b]

Carlos

Your report is 100% accurate - which for me is a good thing. As a shareholder - to see so much opportunity in a retailer that is generally considered successful is a good thing.

Our associate education on products is one of the biggest hurdles we have to overcome. Today I would not special order a firearm through Wal-Mart (ok - I would because I know I can get it done - but as an average consumer I would not). I wouldn't ask for advice from a Wal-Mart associate and hold it in the highest esteem because traditionally they have not been educated. Currently I am in Lawn and Garden and we run into this issue everyday.

The good news is that we see it and are trying to change it. It'll take time no doubt, but it will get done. I look at our softlines as an example. Years ago I would never buy clothes at Wal-Mart. Today - I am willing to buy in the George line. Not much else - but that George stuff is pretty good. Oh - Levi's too now that we carry them. The point is, I wouldn't have in the past, and today I will. Customers are starting to see that too.

We have opportunities, but my feeling in the corporation is NOT that we have it all right. We are paranoid about getting what we have taken away from us, and by virtue of that we are looking at every unturned rock. We feel like we get nothing right and always have room to improve. So hopefully you will see improvement. It may not be tomorrow - but over time things should change.

As Brian can attest - I was never excited about working and living the corporate life. But all in all Wal-Mart is a pretty good company with good values. I feel good where I am at.

Thanks

JB

[ErikW]

Wal-Mart in Fast Company, a very interesting read.

In the end, of course, it is we as shoppers who have the power, and who have given that power to Wal-Mart. Part of Wal-Mart's dominance, part of its insight, and part of its arrogance, is that it presumes to speak for American shoppers.

[EricW]

It's just like doing business with GE. Once you're hooked, you're done for. They become such a large portion of your business you can't live without them, and they have so much power over your profitability that you're forever living on the brink of financial destruction.

How in the hell do you make something cost 5% each and every year anyway? Over 10 years that's a 40% decrease. Over 30 years, thats nearly an 80% decrease. Even the Chinese will fall flat on this economic model sooner or later.

[MoNsTeR]

How in the hell do you make something cost 5% each and every year anyway? Over 10 years that's a 40% decrease. Over 30 years, thats nearly an 80% decrease. Even the Chinese will fall flat on this economic model sooner or later.

By that logic, all economic activity in the entire world should have ceased by now.

Think about this, how much does a loaf of bread cost in real terms today, versus 100 years ago, or 500 years ago, or 2000 years ago? The fraction is so small, easily under a hundredth of a percent, that it's laughable. And yet, people are still in the business of selling bread. Better yet, look at computers. The cost of computing power has fallen as far in 30 years as the cost of bread has in thousands of years. But sales of computers climb ever upward.

Cost savings come from technological advance and the accumulation of capital. The scope for improvement in this arena is literally infinite. But resources are ultimately finite, while human wants are unlimited, therefore there will never be a shortage of work to be done (though profits will disappear from stagnant industries, like... bread!).

[EricW]

How in the hell do you make something cost 5% each and every year anyway? Over 10 years that's a 40% decrease. Over 30 years, thats nearly an 80% decrease. Even the Chinese will fall flat on this economic model sooner or later.

By that logic, all economic activity in the entire world should have ceased by now.

Think about this, how much does a loaf of bread cost in real terms today, versus 100 years ago, or 500 years ago, or 2000 years ago? The fraction is so small, easily under a hundredth of a percent, that it's laughable. And yet, people are still in the business of selling bread. Better yet, look at computers. The cost of computing power has fallen as far in 30 years as the cost of bread has in thousands of years. But sales of computers climb ever upward.

Cost savings come from technological advance and the accumulation of capital. The scope for improvement in this arena is literally infinite. But resources are ultimately finite, while human wants are unlimited, therefore there will never be a shortage of work to be done (though profits will disappear from stagnant industries, like... bread!).

(Groan...)

[Guest Larry Cazes]

JB- thanks for de-bunking this one. Other places on the net- like Glocktalk.com - seem to eat up rumor w/o regard to evidence or even claimed personal experience.

Carlos, now you done it! You've ruined my faith in that fine forum as a source of accurate info and experience!

Larry

[MoNsTeR]

(Groan...)

....what?!

Talking economics is about the only thing I enjoy as much as shooting!

[gm iprod]

Do more shooting, talk less economics.

[TBF]

As info.

The Savage 300WSM I bought from Wal-mart is defective in absolutely no way, accurate and now that I adjusted the trigger awsome to shoot. Some groups as small as .25 MOA at 100YD. Large groups around .600 if I do my part.

Definately not a dissapointing way to spend $350.00

Travis F.