Classifier Advice

[sgtis108]

My classifiers have always classed me below my match shooting abilities. So I got off my behind and started working on standards. Dry fire mostly.

Now I've shocked and amazed myself. Two of the last three have been GM classifiers.

I'M NOT A GM! I'm a mid A. I have come to this determination based on match results. That's about my match shooting right now.

Do I continue to work on standards and out class myself?

I've been swinging for the fences. I've hit a couple of homers.

What do you guys think.

Daniel

[Flexmoney]

Just shoot them and let the classifications work out however they work out.

Put in solid runs (as opposed to hero or zero) and you will move up in match standings.

[nwb01]

Just shoot them and let the classifications work out however they work out.

Put in solid runs (as opposed to hero or zero) and you will move up in match standings.

Is the hero or zero approach to classifiers the wrong way to shoot them ?? I guess this would depend on what you are trying to do in regards to your percentage. I know that some classifiers are very difficult for lower class shooters (myself) to score well on due to the very high hit factors. I have been leaning toward the hero or zero but I am not sure if this is the right approach.

[SteveU]

Just shoot them and let the classifications work out however they work out.

Put in solid runs (as opposed to hero or zero) and you will move up in match standings.

Is the hero or zero approach to classifiers the wrong way to shoot them ?? I guess this would depend on what you are trying to do in regards to your percentage. I know that some classifiers are very difficult for lower class shooters (myself) to score well on due to the very high hit factors. I have been leaning toward the hero or zero but I am not sure if this is the right approach.

Depends on whether you want your highest possible classification or a classification that reflects how you typically shoot. Hero/zero would do the former, Flex's suggestion is the latter. The "lower class shooter" argument is circular.

[SharonAnne9x23]

I never 'worked' on classifiers. I would do my regular practice and shoot the classifier as I would any other stage.

[mike4045]

I have been going hero/zero lately, kind of the way I shoot matches too. I need one more good one to make "A". I don't practice them, I just don't slow down on them either.

Mike

[sgtis108]

I think flex was saying to shoot the matches solidly.

The only reason I worked on standards was because I was called sandbagger so often.

From day one I worked on movement and getting rid of wasted movement. Field courses are where I shine.

So I worked on my weakness.

[el pres]

I have so many ideas on this subject. I have "never" practiced movment but field courses are

where I shine as well. The longer the course, the better I'll do.

Classifiers are a problem, stuck in B scenerio. We've hashed this out before but I belive stuck in B

is a mathematical problem. I have gotten close to A but came down in %, why? because of 65%ers..

Look at A,M, or even some GM's, and see how many 65-70%ers they shoot that dont count. It's a default

run, it's I shot it well, maybe clean, but was'nt on it today for some reason. Problem is if your in B, it

counts..

Enough complaining about my lack of skill. Obviously we want to develope the consistancy to shoot 90-95's

all the time but for me the problem is all mental. It's always my worst stage, I put too much weight

on that extreamly short amount of time of a classifier and I jerk the whole thing, tension. So lately I decided

it's "Hero or Zero", I'm pulling an 80-85% or a 20%. Might still be stuck in B but at least I wont see my %

dwindle !!

Oh, and I dont like walking up to the prize table at the state match hearing, sandbagger, in the background either...

[AlamoShooter]

Practice is Good. with a big fat period. Solid practice builds skill. practice to build a skill, not to cut and past a class on paper card.

A GM has, should have a bag of skills to pull from so that the more challenging something gets, the bigger the spread in the % points. Look at how you compare on the unusural challenges. Like having to shoot prone and get up and shoot some more. left hand shooting = never call it 'Week Hand' its just shooting with the other hand.

I can shoot a standards pretty darn good , but I don't know that I will ever be in GM class. I just don't have the fast twitch muscle thing. I do OK out of not giving up,

Brian Enos sized me up in 1992 when he autograph my book He wrote "Stick with it and stay sharp"

[steel1212]

Shoot stages to the best of YOUR ability everytime. Shoot the classifiers like you shoot the rest of the stages. Once I settled on this philosophy my classifier percentages started going up and started to get more consistent. Sure I'll bomb one but most are in the high B low A range, which is where I see myself right now, not really a B shooter but not a great A class shooter either...I guess a A-

[boz1911]

I've put undue pressure on myself during classifier stages in the past, but now I just try and let them happen. I do push the envelope a tad, but in open you have to. I'm also not a big beleiver in reshoots. I reshot one classifier last year when I had equipment problem and felt guilty about it. I don't feel so bad now as we shot that same classifier recently and I shot it well enough to be a counter.

[Flexmoney]

...but I don't know that I will ever be in GM class. I just don't have the fast twitch muscle thing.

Bullshit.

Treat yourself better. You deserve it.

[Flexmoney]

...for me the problem is all mental. It's always my worst stage...

You and so many others.

They are just a stage, like any other. They have targets, like any other. We add the silly baggage...expectations and desire.

[Jake Di Vita]

Bullshit.

Treat yourself better. You deserve it.

Thank you.

[nwb01]

Interesting........ looks like I am not the only one that has a problem when going to the classifier stage.

[sfinney]

You are, the shooter you are - not what some small thin piece of cardboard says.

If you are shooting GM classifiers I'd say its time to put aside the "I'm an A Shooter" or "I'm not a XXX Shooter" and start thinking only of your Overall placement in matches. Are you limiting yourself? Its hard to stay motivated to improve if you are stuck in a "I'm an A mindset"..... if you feel your match scores indicate that you are not a GM, despite your classifiers, improve to be competitve overall - looks like you are getting the basic skill set down, to shoot good classifiers. Now work on stage breakdown, movement efficiency, etc. Before long you'll be that A guy that is always placing near the top in the big matches everyone always complains about. If that happens, and its real, the classification will follow.

But you better practice the movement and efficiency stuff ALSO, not just classifier skills - stay motivated, keep improving - or you'll be the guy who shows up at Majors with the M or GM card who rarely finishes in his Class. Ask me how I know.

Edited January 17, 2009 by sfinney

[Flexmoney]

Is the hero or zero approach to classifiers the wrong way to shoot them ??

I think there is a better way.

Just think about what you are saying to yourself with the hero or zero attitude. Either way it comes out...you KNOW that is not your skill level. Hero means you shot above yourself. Zero means you shot below.

With that attitude, you are going about it with an outcome in mind...not execution.

Many take that attitude and roll into the classifier with a speed focus. They are gonna burn it down. In poker, we'd call that drawing to an inside straight (odds aren't good).

But...and this is important...I am most certainly NOT saying to "slow down and get your hits". Why? Because "slow" is still a speed focus.

OK then...so what do you do?

Lets see if we can reset your metal game and set you up for success. First off, realize that performance comes down to execution. Performance comes down to execution...

Just what is it you need to execute?

You can get the timer out and see if your draw, reloads, splits, and transitions are off. If they are, you know where to work. The way to improve them is by eliminating wasteful motion. Be efficient. (Gaining these efficiencies in practice will improve shooting confidence.)

That, however, isn't where many are faltering. Many give the wrong marching orders. We incorrectly define...what we want to execute. Let me give an example.

***

I recall a stage at a local match a few years back. I am shooting my 24oz G35 in Limited (major). We had about a half-dozen Master and Grand Master Open shooters there that day. The stage had and activator popper, a drop-turner, and a handful of other targets that were begging to be shot between the activator and the DT. This was the end of the stage. If you didn't get the points on the DT, then they were just No-Penalty Mikes...so everybody was going for it. Trouble was, it just didn't seem like there was enough time to get the other targets shot, before the DT disappeared.

I must have been toward the bottom of the shooting order, as I recall Open stud after Open stud (and they are all great shooters) fail to get the targets shot down between the activator and the DT. So, I am watching all of this. My mind could have said..'hey, these guys shoot as fast as you...they have Open guns...if they can't do it, how are you going to do it with your iron sighted Glock". But, as I watched, I saw that they were all trying to hit the targets. And, the targets they were trying to hit...they were just asking for any old hit on them (mentally).

When I went, I decided that I was going to center-punch the targets (including the activator) and just see where that took me. (A couple of key things in that last sentence..."decided" and "center-punch".)

***

So, what does that have to do with shooting classifiers and having a "better attitude"?

- Define your target more narrowly. Pick a Target Spot that you visualize. Don't just shoot and accept Charlies and Deltas. Center-punch the target.

- Decide. Make up your mind that you are going to...not just shoot well...but that you are going to do what it takes to execute. Decide that your "target" isn't an 18 inch wide piece of cardboard or a 8+ inch piece of steel. Make your mind up that your target is the the center of the center of the A-zone. Pick a Target SPOT. Visualize it.

- Be VISUALLY aggressive. Don't shoot fast or slow. Don't see too much or too little either. Shoot aggressively with your vision.

[VegasOPM]

This is an interesting topic. I have been chasing classes a bit lately. I changed my focus to overall match placement, and (like many others) have started treating the classifiers as just another stage. The problem with classifiers is that they rarely include movement or strategy- which are both key to high match placement. The overall match scores don't care whether I am classed as a "B" or an "M".

[sgtis108]

I win the local stuff usually. I usually beat the M's and A's. Generally the more complicated the stage the better I preform. At the larger matches I win my class "B" sometimes. I usually screw up an easy stage. Ace the tough ones. I guess that shows where my mind is.

I have a freind who is telling me to classify is high as I can. That it will push me to improve the rest of my game.

I've shot classifiers as a regular stage for the last couple of years. That has left me in B.

Then I win the local match beating the M's and the A's. I get the trash talk then. In good fun.

Thanks for the replies

[nwb01]

Flex,

I think your way is better. The more I analyze this the more it makes sense to just shoot classifiers solidly within our own ability. Decided to shoot at the level where we want to be and just do it. Not just burn it down and hope for the best. Decide to do it, make the shots count and see where it all shakes out when the points and times are tallied.

Thanks

[Thomas Moore]

This is the approach I take when shooting classifiers.

If me and my bros are close I'll be conservative and get my points and go on to the next stage.

If I'm low in my class I'll also be conservative and try and move up the ranks.

Now if I'm at the top of my class lets say 94.77 (and I've been there) I'll try and burn some down to get over the hurdle. But as you can tell from my current standings I've had a few low ones slip in there and bring me back down.

[boz1911]

You are, the shooter you are - not what some small thin piece of cardboard says.

If you are shooting GM classifiers I'd say its time to put aside the "I'm an A Shooter" or "I'm not a XXX Shooter" and start thinking only of your Overall placement in matches. Are you limiting yourself? Its hard to stay motivated to improve if you are stuck in a "I'm an A mindset"..... if you feel your match scores indicate that you are not a GM, despite your classifiers, improve to be competitve overall - looks like you are getting the basic skill set down, to shoot good classifiers. Now work on stage breakdown, movement efficiency, etc. Before long you'll be that A guy that is always placing near the top in the big matches everyone always complains about. If that happens, and its real, the classification will follow.

But you better practice the movement and efficiency stuff ALSO, not just classifier skills - stay motivated, keep improving - or you'll be the guy who shows up at Majors with the M or GM card who rarely finishes in his Class. Ask me how I know.

Good info here. I thought last month moving into A open, I could take a little breather. Wrong!! I started thinking about my major match performances from the last year and realized that "more" dedication and practice, especially in the weak areas are going to be required to "justify" my new A card.

[boz1911]

Shoot aggressively with your vision.

I don't even know how to describe how profound this statement is.

Edited January 17, 2009 by ima45dv8

[lynn jones]

this is what i like to tell shooters that want to go up in class: "you really don't want to go up in a class until you can consistently win your class in a major match."

[Ron Ankeny]

I have always taken Brian's advice, "Just shoot A's as quickly as possible." FWIW, Flex did a great job of explaining what it takes to shoot A's as quickly as possible.

Be honest with yourself and just shoot. The scores will show you (and everyone else) what you are good at and where you suck. To do anything else is disingenuous.

"you really don't want to go up in a class until you can consistently win your class in a major match."

Not wanting to move up and managing your scores so you don't move up are two entirely different things. I got all caught up in the stigma of "paper master", "grandbagger", "paper GM", etc. when I was on the verge of GM in Production and Limited 10. I didn't move up and it wasn't because I couldn't shoot the scores.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Ron Ankeny