9mm coke bottle shape/ primer question

[y-not]

I just got a new 550B (I am not new to reloadingthough) and my 9mm rounds have a slight bulge in the rear of the case. I am using the Dillon dies the resizer is set all the way down to the shell plate.

Also the primer pin allways feeds a primer any time the ram is moved, is that OK? I am use to the Lee that dons't feed unless there is a case there.

So far I love the fell of the 550 though.

[ofcrfs242]

I just got a new 550B (I am not new to reloadingthough) and my 9mm rounds have a slight bulge in the rear of the case. I am using the Dillon dies the resizer is set all the way down to the shell plate.

Also the primer pin allways feeds a primer any time the ram is moved, is that OK? I am use to the Lee that dons't feed unless there is a case there.

So far I love the fell of the 550 though.

The only way that I have found to get the case sized all the way down is the EGW undersized die. I personally use it on a single stage press that I have ground the shell holder down on. I have read numerous posts here of guys using the same die on their press.

As for the primer. The 550 I use always feeds primers unless the tube is empty.

[robertbank]

I just got a new 550B (I am not new to reloadingthough) and my 9mm rounds have a slight bulge in the rear of the case. I am using the Dillon dies the resizer is set all the way down to the shell plate.

Also the primer pin allways feeds a primer any time the ram is moved, is that OK? I am use to the Lee that dons't feed unless there is a case there.

So far I love the fell of the 550 though.

Make sure your shell plate is down just to the point where it just moves freely. Your resizing die should be down to the point where it is just touching the shellplate. A very slight bulge is OK. Test to see if they feed in your gun. IF they do, no worries.

Take Cre

Bob

[y-not]

I should have said they fit the chamber of my Sig ok but not the wilson gauge

[gm iprod]

You are trying to put an empty case in the Wilson guage? As far as I know the Wilson is a case guage not a loaded round gauge. Only insert a full sized empty case to check it is fine.

[George]

Get the Dillon ammo gauge if finished rounds pass the one you have but do not fit your chamber.

The Dillon carbide 9mm die is the best choice IMHO. Crank it down till it just rocks the slack outa' the shellplate. I don't let it actually bottom out hard, but I do put just a tiny bit of pressure on the shell-plate.

Using case lube give a better result too. Hornady One-Shot is the ticket here.

Also, 9mm wants a .355 jacketed and .356 lead bullet diameter. Trying to use .356 jacketed and .357 lead will always produce a coke-bottle everytime because of the bulge at the case mouth from the bullet diameter.

BTW, the crimper should never be used to fix this. Just flatten the bell, but do not indent the bullet.

[DownUnder]

It probably only looks bulged. The Dillon die is quite tight and the case will be narrower between the base of the case and the expansion made by the loaded projectile, giving it the Coke bottle look that is normal from most Dillon presses. The only time you are likely to have an actual bulge in the base is if you are loading brass fired in an unsupported Glock chamber. The simplest check is to remove your barrel from the pistol then drop your loaded rounds into the chamber. If they drop into a clean chamber with a clink and drop out easily when you invert the barrel then you are ready to go. If you have a case gauge it eliminates the need to remove your barrel for checking rounds.

[G-ManBart]

The only time you are likely to have an actual bulge in the base is if you are loading brass fired in an unsupported Glock chamber.

I am NOT a Glock lover, but I don't know why people say this over and over....it's 100% false. All Glocks have completely supported chambers. Some of the very earliest models had a bit less support than they do now, but even the one I bought back in '94 is completely supported. The chamber dimensions at the mouth are slightly larger to promote reliabile feeding. Some other brands and models are actually more generous than Glocks, but they're just not as popular...what else is right? Since the chamber is slightly larger there, the case expands more upon firing and gives the "Glock buldge" but the case was supported by metal as much as even most premium aftermarket 1911 barrels. I posted a comparison pic to illustrate this in another thread...I'll see if I can find it and post the link.

Back to the threadstarters question, the Dillon resize die is flared towards the bottom so that cases get started easier. Compared with other brands, they won't resize quite as much or quite as far down....so they're not "tight" as some have suggested. A standard Lee resizing die with remove most or all of that ledge you're seeing at the bottom of the case. A Lee U-die available from EGW (undersized die) is .001 smaller and is shorter so that you can get the part that does the resizing closer to the shell plate. If you go with a U-die it's almost certain that 100% of your rounds will drop right in a tight case gauge and will easily drop in your barrel. I like the EGW case gauge as it has 9mm, 38 Super, .40 and .45 on it.

Some folks like to set up a single stage press with the U-die and just run the cases through that by itself. Depending on the press model, some folks will run a standard resize die in station 1 and then the U-die in station 2 as this lowers the effort on the lever, but that requires an open station on your press.

Personally, for 9mm, I'd just go with a standard Lee resize die and see how that works since 9mm is nowhere near as bad as .40 when it comes to this. Case lube will make for an easier running press and less effort. I know there are legions of folks who love One Shot, but I'm not impressed with it at all. A tube of pure, unscented lanolin will last 25 times as long, requires no cleanup or tumbling of cases and costs a fraction of the amount. You put a couple hundred cases in a box, dab a spot the size of half a pencil eraser (or maybe a touch less) on your hand, work it all around your hands and then run your hands through the cases...just sorta sift the cases and don't worry about touching each one. Wash your hands, load the ammo and you're done. It's a natural lubricant and will help dry, chapped hands too

Here's the pic....Glock 22 barrel and Schuemann Classic AET. Pretty darned close between the two.

Edited January 9, 2009 by G-ManBart

[Carlos]

my 9mm rounds have a slight bulge in the rear of the case.

Are you using a very short COAL from a loading book - such as 1.100" ?? If so, it is far too short.

Why?

Because,

1) most guns feed better with longer loaded ammo (75s are an exception). Try measuing the OAL of WWB factory ammo - no one complains about it not feeding.

2) longer OAL means lower pressure.

3) lower pressure on brass means it lasts longer

4) lower pressure on gun means it lasts longer too.

5) lower pressure provides a wider safety margin of you run accross a weak piece of brass

6) longer OAL provides greater safety margin in the event of a set-back

Yes - I realize that the books all list these ridiculously short OALs. The books are wrong.

[Jim Watson]

There is no bulge. There is only the portion of the case not resized due to the depth of the shellplate and the radius of the sizing die mouth. The narrow middle is the portion of the case that was sized down and not expanded back. The mouth of the case was expanded by the "powder funnel" and bullet.

I consider the coke bottle appearance to be an asset, it shows me the bullet is firmly seated and not likely to set back against the feed ramp.

Gauge or chamber check, of course. Glock "support" debates notwithstanding, not all chambers are the same size and shape and a sloppy one will leave the case expanded where the dies do not touch.

I occasionally get one that is greatly expanded all the way around, the sizing die leaves it looking almost like a belted magnum. Fired in a HiPoint or SMG? I don't know, but it was roomy.

If you have a "minimum match chamber" so proudly advertised by many, you may have to have a "U" die and even a thinned shellholder as described above if you want to load mixed pickup brass for your pride and joy.

[G-ManBart]

There is no bulge. There is only the portion of the case not resized due to the depth of the shellplate and the radius of the sizing die mouth. The narrow middle is the portion of the case that was sized down and not expanded back. The mouth of the case was expanded by the "powder funnel" and bullet.

If you haven't seen his cases and measured them you're really only guessing. If one case is bulged and another isn't bulged and you resize both, they're both going to show a difference between the middle of the case and closer to the head....one will just have more difference than the other. Just because the sizing die can't get down that far doesn't mean he can't still have cases that are bulged. R,

[Duane Thomas]

I am NOT a Glock lover, but I don't know why people say this over and over....it's 100% false. All Glocks have completely supported chambers.

This is true. They're also fairly tight. I'd heard so much about "Glock bulge" I was surprised the first time I took the barrel out of a Glock 9mm, dropped a loaded round into the chamber, and saw just how tight (but not too tight, natch) the chamber was, and just how much case support there was, as well. Now, you want to talk something that has a fat chamber, try a SIG 9mm. The round just rattles around like a pea in a manhole.

[DownUnder]

I think we are talking about different types of bulge. I'm not referring to the blown out bottoms that used to occur with the 40 and 45 calibres, I'm talking about the whole case bulging out in the normal Glock chamber and then not fully sizing all of the way down when it goes through a sizing die. The difference in feel is very noticeable when Glock cases go through the press. This link has images http://www.christiangunowner.com/glockreviews.html The problem seems to go away with after market barrels in the Glock, hence my reference to normal Glock barrels.

[gm iprod]

The bulge shown in the barrels (if measured properly) will be from the case pushing back against the slide as the slide and barrel move rearwards. It is at the start of the web (a thickening of the casewall) and will be because pressure is still high as the case is dragged / pushed out of the chamber. 9mm chambers are slightly tapered and therefore the case will conform to the available space. I would bet that round would not easily go back into the chamber it was fired from, usualy a sign of poor headspace not unsupported chambers. 303 (Both SMLE and P14) rifles exhibit the same characteristic when they get a bit slack in the headspacing. P14 especially as they are all pretty old nowadays and 303 ammo is a little variable.

The barrel on the left looks like the case is not far enough into the chamber (it may be the light, angle and colour of the barrel) but would appear to be fully supporting the web of the case and only the solid head would be protruding from the chamber. The Barsto on the right comes back over the head a lot more but it is supporting part of the case that can't easily expand and is a solid piece of brass (except for the flash and primer holes) and has very little sideways pressure being exerted on it. But the black colour of the barrel does not allow us to see all the way down to the cartridge case and see exactly how much more. Bit like comparing green apples with red apples.

I have cut cases apart and put them into a barrel to see if any of the web is unsupported. I believe I have yet to see a Glock that is not properly supported, maybe not all the way to the extractor groove, but certainly to the correct position.

[G-ManBart]

The barrel on the left looks like the case is not far enough into the chamber (it may be the light, angle and colour of the barrel) but would appear to be fully supporting the web of the case and only the solid head would be protruding from the chamber. The Barsto on the right comes back over the head a lot more but it is supporting part of the case that can't easily expand and is a solid piece of brass (except for the flash and primer holes) and has very little sideways pressure being exerted on it. But the black colour of the barrel does not allow us to see all the way down to the cartridge case and see exactly how much more. Bit like comparing green apples with red apples.

The barrel on the left is a Schuemann Classic AET and the round was 100% fully seated in the chamber. The barrel on the right is a stock Glock 22 barrel and not aftermarket. The picture isn't perfect, no doubt, but the Schuemann does offer a touch more case support...the lighting makes it hard to see. My point with the picture was to point out that there wasn't much difference between a factory Glock barrel and a top quality aftermarket 1911 barrel because SO many people say "Glocks have unsupported chambers" which is completely false. R,

[gm iprod]

Gmanbart,

Sorry I was looking at the picture of the Glock barrels in the link. Not your picture which shows exactly what both you and I are going on about.

I have been shooting Glocks for close on 15years, I prefer 1911 style guns, that's the way I am, but what I am doing at the moment now requires me to have one and I have finally stumped up the money (and mine to boot) and purchased a Glock for myself. And have had no problems using brass fired in way older Glocks than mine.

[revchuck]

Personally, for 9mm, I'd just go with a standard Lee resize die and see how that works since 9mm is nowhere near as bad as .40 when it comes to this.

Actually, I use standard Lee dies for both calibers and any brass I pick up on the range, and all my ammo runs faultlessly through all of my guns.

[G-ManBart]

Personally, for 9mm, I'd just go with a standard Lee resize die and see how that works since 9mm is nowhere near as bad as .40 when it comes to this.

Actually, I use standard Lee dies for both calibers and any brass I pick up on the range, and all my ammo runs faultlessly through all of my guns.

That depends on the guns you're going to use it in. If I shoot ammo in one of my Glocks and resize it with a standard Lee die it absolutely will not work in my Limited or SS guns. If I use the U-die the problem disappears.

[revchuck]

Personally, for 9mm, I'd just go with a standard Lee resize die and see how that works since 9mm is nowhere near as bad as .40 when it comes to this.

Actually, I use standard Lee dies for both calibers and any brass I pick up on the range, and all my ammo runs faultlessly through all of my guns.

That depends on the guns you're going to use it in. If I shoot ammo in one of my Glocks and resize it with a standard Lee die it absolutely will not work in my Limited or SS guns. If I use the U-die the problem disappears.

My two token 1911s are in .45 ACP, so this isn't an issue with me. My 9x19s - CZ75B, Beretta, SIG and S&W - all have factory barrels which shoot far better than I do, so I don't see myself going for match barrels in them.

[alzo]

I'm glad to see this post. I just got a new Dillon 9mm sizing die on my 550 and used it for the first time today. I had noticed the coke bottle shape in the past, but it was especially noticeable on the rounds I loaded today. The case is wide at the mouth due to the bullet, then appears to narrow in the middle,and then seems to widen again near the case head. I never had 9mm rounds fail when I checked them with my Dillon case gauge in the past. Today I had two fail out of 100. I assume the ones that fit the case gauge check will work ok, but they sure do look a bit odd. I had the same thought as one of the posters above said.....they almost look like belted magnums.

[G-ManBart]

I'm glad to see this post. I just got a new Dillon 9mm sizing die on my 550 and used it for the first time today. I had noticed the coke bottle shape in the past, but it was especially noticeable on the rounds I loaded today. The case is wide at the mouth due to the bullet, then appears to narrow in the middle,and then seems to widen again near the case head. I never had 9mm rounds fail when I checked them with my Dillon case gauge in the past. Today I had two fail out of 100. I assume the ones that fit the case gauge check will work ok, but they sure do look a bit odd. I had the same thought as one of the posters above said.....they almost look like belted magnums.

That's pretty common and especially so with the Dillon dies which have a little more flare at the mouth to make the cases feed into the die smoother. The rounds that pass the gauge should work fine even though they look a little odd. The rounds that fail the gauge may still work but you'll have to chamber check them in your gun and then shoot some to see what happens. I'd set up a little bin or coffee can and fill it up with the rounds that fail the gauge and then chamber check them the next time you clean the gun. If they go in the chamber okay then they'd be fine to use for practice. There's a good chance that either the standard Lee resize die or U-die would give you nearly 100% that pass the gauge and it's a cheap enough thing to try...think the U-die is only $22 and the standard can't be more than that. R,

[y-not]

On another post I was hveing trouble with my 9.mm not going into my Wilson gauge. I thought it was the bulge in the case head, Turns out it I was not crimping the bell out of the bullet end. I kept turning the seat die down until the rounds now fit, It also almost got rid of the coke bottle look.