DrawandDuck Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 1st round is hitting bout 1 1/2" high & right next 20 I can put on a paster (target at 10 yds). Insert new mag, load....BAM high and right 1st shot...all other rounds on the paster.....Repeated this another 8 times same results........Any ideas?? STI W/TruBore barrel.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 i thought this was going to be about rifle shooting, and a cold bore shot. never mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Racking in the first round by hand is making the gun lock together differently than during actual firing. What part/s is/are responsible is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Are you loading with the slide locked back or are you putting the mag in and then racking the slide? I'd try it both ways and see if it makes a difference. The gun doesn't cycle the same when hand cycled and especially if the slide was locked back, when compared with how it cycles when fired. If the barrel lugs aren't going fully flush into the slide lugs it would cause the gun to hit slightly higher...or at least that seems like it would have to be that way. Where's Howard, Matt or Venri when we need them? Edit to add...just saw Matt posted as I was typing! Edited January 2, 2009 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Where's Howard, Matt or Venri when we need them? Edit to add...just saw Matt posted as I was typing! Again the GM splits on the keyboard beat the old man napping while posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If the hand cycled round hits in a different place than the rest of the mag fired normally the gunsmith was out to lunch when the barrel was fitted, and I don't care how you load it from super slow motion to racking it like you hate it. What happens with a 3 second super slow draw? Does it do it when you shoot groups? That is a HUGE change in impact point...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 If the hand cycled round hits in a different place than the rest of the mag fired normally the gunsmith was out to lunch when the barrel was fitted, and I don't care how you load it from super slow motion to racking it like you hate it.What happens with a 3 second super slow draw? Does it do it when you shoot groups? That is a HUGE change in impact point...... Well, he does work for BEER......but I will give him a good SLAP next time I see him......only on 1st shot...after that spot on until empty........just damn odd.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Where's Howard, Matt or Venri when we need them? Edit to add...just saw Matt posted as I was typing! Again the GM splits on the keyboard beat the old man napping while posting Yoooh ! I was taking my own beauty sleep !!! How long has the recoil spring been in use ?? How 'bout the barrel link ?? could it be "stretched" ?? Change both with fresh parts, (which might be a good idea anyway) and then send the gun to your favorite 'smith to re-tweak your barrel fit. A few items concerning barrel indexing as the gun settles during cycling need to be checked. Then again ... you could always refer to the first shot as having been your "warning shot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If the hand cycled round hits in a different place than the rest of the mag fired normally the gunsmith was out to lunch when the barrel was fitted, That's what has me worried/wondering....bad ju-ju if that's the case. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Where's Howard, Matt or Venri when we need them? Edit to add...just saw Matt posted as I was typing! Again the GM splits on the keyboard beat the old man napping while posting Hey, I may be older than you, but I'm not "old"...lol Actually, I made a conscious decision to type out a thoughtful reply and would likely have been first if I'd tossed out a one-liner....now I'm going to go pout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raudi Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Not being an expert, I'd like to throw in a few thoughts. If it were a problem caused by different lockup of hand cycling vs. shooting, I'd expect to see the problem only, when the gun is indeed hand cycled, and not when it is only reloaded. The shot ought to be spot on, after the reload. Since the problem is also occuring after the reload, I'd suggest looking elsewhere. It could be a trigger control problem. If you have good trigger control on the first shot, but your finger moves on the trigger while shooting, you'd get the exact same pattern. First shot high and right (in that case correct) and the rest pushed down and to the left. As you reload, you get your finger off the trigger and reestablish a good position. And it starts over. Anyway, just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If the hand cycled round hits in a different place than the rest of the mag fired normally the gunsmith was out to lunch when the barrel was fitted, and I don't care how you load it from super slow motion to racking it like you hate it.What happens with a 3 second super slow draw? Does it do it when you shoot groups? That is a HUGE change in impact point...... Well, he does work for BEER......but I will give him a good SLAP next time I see him......only on 1st shot...after that spot on until empty........just damn odd.... That splains a lot, Lucy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Try shooting the gun at a real distance. 10 yards tells you nothing.Had a friend with the same problem a few years ago ,was shooting at 10 yards and first shot was off. Sent gun to another gunsmith,spent a few hundred dollars on new link,refit barrel ect. Got gun back, same thing. finnaly found out by shooting gun at 25 yds. that plated bullets he was useing were loosing jackets and grouping 10 inches at 25 yards. Switched to jacketed ,problem cured. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Not being an expert, I'd like to throw in a few thoughts. If it were a problem caused by different lockup of hand cycling vs. shooting, Anyway, just my thoughts. It is ONLY after hand cycled...when I stated reload...the gun is totally empty and I chamber a round by hand.... Shooting jacked bullets, MG 124G JHP..... Gun is new, baybe 300 rounds through it... My smith told me since I know where the 1st one is going aim LOW & LEFT for the firs shot.. OK, cats out of the bag...I'M the one who built it.....had the parts laying around from prize tables and decided to try my hand at building own gun...... Other than this first shot deal she runs sweet......I believe it has to be the barrel lockup when hand cycling but can't see any real difference, other than this little first shot issue....Oh, well....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Gun is new, baybe 300 rounds through it... I figured it might be new. Another 300 rounds and it might "break in". I don't know if that is good or not... Racking it Hard and letting the slide fly might get you closer to what is happening in recoil (same lockup). But, you might have a real fit issue that could lead to problems. I'd keep a very close eye on it and see what is rubbing where. You don't want to ruin your parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 My guess would be that the lugs are not seating all the way when hand cycling due to it being tight. Put a thousand rounds through it and see if it's still doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 What are you using for a fit indicator? Gunsmith/machining blue? Magic marker? Candle smoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 My guess would be that the lugs are not seating all the way when hand cycling due to it being tight. Put a thousand rounds through it and see if it's still doing it. That was my thinking, fwiw. I'd worry about rounding the lugs. I'd check them and check often during shooting, I think. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 To me, it doesn't even really mean anything was fit wrong. If the fit is tight and it's having trouble going all the way forward on the lower lugs, the slide stop may not be contacting the downward radius of the lower lugs until it is fired. That could point to the higher hit with the first round. Or your gun might explode in 500 rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 What are you using for a fit indicator? Gunsmith/machining blue? Magic marker? Candle smoke? Majic Marker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 To me, it doesn't even really mean anything was fit wrong. If the fit is tight and it's having trouble going all the way forward on the lower lugs, the slide stop may not be contacting the downward radius of the lower lugs until it is fired. That could point to the higher hit with the first round.Or your gun might explode in 500 rounds I'll keep a close count and let someone else shoot it when 500 draws near........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The lower lugs should be level as presented to the slide stop, there should be even 'tension' across the slide stop from the point that the lower lugs first get on top to the point where the barrel stops. If that tension increases or changes in any way the barrel fit is poor and the gun never will be as accurate as it could be. Upper lug engagement should be the same no matter how you cycle the gun. Either the barrel fits or it does not, I don't think there is anything in between. I very much disagree that a gun should need 'broken in'. If they are finished and correct when they leave the bench there won't be any change as you shoot them. If I were you I would figure out what is wrong and learn from it, no matter what it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Is it possible that your grip changes during recoil and it takes that to get you where you expect to/should be? Just to rule that out, you could reload, shoot one, take your weak hand off and move your right hand as you would during a reload, regrip, and shoot again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'd give it to a good smith to have it looked at. I don't think I'd like the idea of it maybe firing out of battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Your gunsmith may have been drinking the wrong brand of beverage or possibly just had too much of the right kind. But then again.....you may be onto curing the right handed shooter's first shot trigger wank. Hurry up....patent whatever you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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