Why limit Production to 10 rounds per magazine?

[fiddler]

New shooter here.

Can anyone explain the 10 round limit in Production to me? It seems to me that if Production is the class for stock pistols and a high cap magazine is stock from the factory, why not use it?

Alot of newbies like me shoot Production and less reloads would be easier on the learning curve.

I suppose we'd need a Production-10 division for the same reasons we need a Limited-10 division.

If this has already been discussed ad nauseum I'd appreciate a link to the thread.

Thanks,

Roy

[DarthMuffin]

To open the division up to as many guns and competitors as possible without feeling they need to kit up with a race gun. I'm especially thinking of compact guns and states where 10-rd mags are the limit. Also, some guns only come with 10-rders stock (my CZ75, or KT P11 for example) even though higher capacity mags will fit.

[ima45dv8]

Short answer is, if you allow magazines to be loaded beyond 10 rounds in Production, you effectively kill the chance for any caliber other than 9mm to be competitive. With the 10 round limit, folks with .40 or .45 pistols (that meet the equipment requirements for Production) can compete evenly with the 9s.

[Nik Habicht]

New shooter here.

Can anyone explain the 10 round limit in Production to me? It seems to me that if Production is the class for stock pistols and a high cap magazine is stock from the factory, why not use it?

Alot of newbies like me shoot Production and less reloads would be easier on the learning curve.

I suppose we'd need a Production-10 division for the same reasons we need a Limited-10 division.

If this has already been discussed ad nauseum I'd appreciate a link to the thread.

Thanks,

Roy

Roy,

it's been discussed a lot and it's a bad idea. Here's some of the reasons why:

Capacity -- the division quickly becomes a one or two gun division. Shooters will always want the max number of rounds

Caliber -- anything but a 9mm becomes obsolete, see capacity.

Reloads -- there should be a couple of divisions where reloading skills are emphasized.

Works -- the Division is growing steadily, let's not try to fix something that's working

Crossover appeal -- IDPA shooters can run their SSP guns without needing to worry about capacity or competitiveness (of the gun)

Those among us who live in capacity restricted states aren't forced to make a choice between being competitive and breaking the law; if they compete on the national level they're also not forced to maintain magazines out of state for use in those matches....

There's more, and I'm pretty sure a search would turn up some threads....

[Nik Habicht]

If you're really sweating the reloads, shoot Limited minor. (Trust me, if you're like most new shooters, you're either punching A's consistently or you can't hit targets past ten yards; in both cases minor doesn't matter nearly as much as it does for shooters at the top of the game). I started out that way and shot Limited minor (when I shot Lim.) for about the first 5 years I was in USPSA --- well except for a couple of matches I shot in Limited with a Single-Stack 1911....

[fiddler]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I get it now. I figured there were good reasons, seems like there are.

[gose]

On the capacity issue, you can also take a look at the current (pretty heated) discussion in IPSC, where they don't have a round limit and they're trying to come up with solution to the "mag race".

Most of the division questions/debates/arguments in IPSC seem to be about production, whereas in USPSA it's very quiet and people in general seem to be happy with the rules as they are. Granted, in IPSC, production is much larger compared to the other divisions (in some/most countries it's even the largest one).

Even if the 10 round limit seems a bit silly on the surface, I still think that it works (especially when you look at the alternative circus in IPSC), so why try to fix it if it's not really broken?

[ChuckS]

New shooter here.

Can anyone explain the 10 round limit in Production to me? It seems to me that if Production is the class for stock pistols and a high cap magazine is stock from the factory, why not use it?

Alot of newbies like me shoot Production and less reloads would be easier on the learning curve.

I suppose we'd need a Production-10 division for the same reasons we need a Limited-10 division.

If this has already been discussed ad nauseum I'd appreciate a link to the thread.

Thanks,

Roy

As you sniff around in the forums you will find some training advice to practice the things you are not good at more than the things your are! Trust me, after a season of shooting production, limited will seem like a cake walk where reloads are concerned!

Welcome to the forum,

Chuck

[EkuJustice]

Thats why I usually shoot production, or limited 10. Good practice on stage breakdown and reloads. Plus when its 3 gun time(prefer 3 gun over pistol only) it seems alot easier shooting the 20+1 limited gun

[sslav]

The best way to cure any capacity pains you may feel in Production division is to shoot Single Stack Division with a .45 for a while. Or even better, shoot Revolver.

[Jim Norman]

If you don't like USPSA Production you can always step up and run an IPSC Rules match at your club, then you can shoot Production with full capacity and a race holster. Or you can shoot your Production gun in Limited with full capacity and just be sure to shoot all A's faster than anyone else and you'll win.

USPSA has a winner in how Production is run here. All calibers work, 9mm to 50AE. (assuming that there is a Production legal gun in 50AE.) In IPSC as has been pointed out 9mm only need apply if you really want to be competitive. Yes you can shoot a 13 round 40, but against a 19 round 9mm you'll find yourself at serious disadvantage on tight courses.

Jim

[Micah]

USPSA has a winner in how Production is run here. All calibers work, 9mm to 50AE. (assuming that there is a Production legal gun in 50AE.) In IPSC as has been pointed out 9mm only need apply if you really want to be competitive. Yes you can shoot a 13 round 40, but against a 19 round 9mm you'll find yourself at serious disadvantage on tight courses.

Jim

Jim, you put that exceptionally well.

By keeping Production a ten round division, you ensure that virtually all calibers have equal footing, and no manufacturer has an edge on capacity.