mike.45 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Guys and girls, Help time needed and basic tips urgently required ! I have got a BIG comp starting in a week and have never shot slug before (stop laughing Kurt !). Half the comp is slug shooting up to 30 meters and I have a day and a half put aside next week to practice purely on slug and need some basic tips to adhere to. I am a competent shotgun shooter but am worried about engaging distant targets, some reactive / moving with slug. The ammo I am using has been sourced and will shoot pretty much point of aim at 30m. The answers I want to know are; is it possible to double taps targets at distance with confidence, is it possible to double tap close targets (7m) with confidence. A number of courses require two hits. Is slug shooting (assuming point of aim) purely a confidence matter or is it completely different to snap shooting buck etc. All the slug targets are paper, should you look for the strike marks or assume the hit and move on. What should I watch out for and what methods work. Should I assume the shotgun is a rifle for these stages and slow down accordingly. Loading and moving aint a problem but squeezing the trigger with confidence is. I know in 3 gun shooting slug is commonly used and am hoping some basic slug tips are out there !!! Any advice is really appreciated ! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Yup, you're essentially shooting a Limited/Standard rifle with piss-poor ballistics. Individual aimed shots, Alphas or nothing. (Because of the slow times introduced by all the loading, points are very important to keep the hit factor up.) I wouldn't count on seeing the hits, even at 40-50 yards. You'll have to call your shots, as benos has repeatedly emphasized with pistol shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Lean into it. Hard. Don't miss. You never have too many rounds loaded. Extra reloads are to be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Agree with the lean into it hard thing, especially if you use a Benelli and/or full house slugs. Never pussyfoot a shotgun, especially the recoil operated variety. I am now shooting Federal Lo-Recoil slugs for obvious reasons. I can double tap (kinda) on point blank stuff with my open gun that is ported & comped when I use the lo-recoil stuff. With full house slugs it's pretty much shot by shot unless you are the incredible hulk. Erik is also right on the money about calling your shots. Learn to hold using rifle like trigger control and if the sight picture was good when the shot breaks and you use a little follow through on your hold, you will be good on the target. Key here is not to allow a flinch to develop because of the brutal recoil shooting the full house stuff. Test your impact at further distances to see what the drop is if you get stuck with some real long shots. Typically a high neck/head hold on an IPSC target at 100YD will get a good center of mass hit with a 50YD sight-in. 30M is an OK sight-in distance for a lone bead sight. I use 40-45M (50YD) as the sight-in distance for my open shotgun with optics. I would also sight at that distance if I were using rifle or ghost ring type sights with a real good sight picture. Lotsa' practice with a focus on trigger control and good follow through on the shot is the ticket here. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Mike45: An e-mail would have done the trick!! First off I don't know anyone that can truely double tap with slugs, low recoil or not! As pointed out since it is a slow tedious thing what with loading and recoil control the hits are critical!! I would...and will spent my practice time at 35M or further...just to force the accuracy part of the deal. I will mainly do single shot "snaps" ( mounting the gun and firing a perfect shot in one smooth motion) AT THE CLASSIC TARGET!!!!! I will use my sights for all but the very closest of shots as the A hit is critticle!!! Next I will make sure of where the gun hits at 30M if turned on it's side....like bent over to shoot through a low port. Remember you are shooting a BIG rifle ( I must disagree with Eric here as "piss poor ballistics" may describe the path of the slug.....but not the down range effect....slug= big bear medicine!!!!) at 30M the ballistics play scant little in the aiming department. A final thought.... don't "over control" the fore end by really grabbing on hard. Think of it as more like a SMG...... lightly rest it in your fore arm hand and really pull it into your shoulder. AIM each shot!!! After about half a day of slug shooting discard all this advice and go with what feels right to you. With that amount of time to practice you should work mainly on your confidence and what is working for you. Out side of a few wierd guys that shoot more slugs than anything else you will do just fine!!!! After all it is JUST SHOOTING, and we both know you can do that!!!!! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Mike: A quick addendom, don't get to keyed into looking for the hits as even out to 20m the wads will also impact the target giving false target readings. Make the shot and move on!!! Don't worry about the recoil you are shooting a gas gun and should have no problem controlling recoil......slug aren't brutal.....just snappy!!! Cheers!!! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 I don't know anyone that can truely double tap with slugs, low recoil or not Kurt is absolutely right about there being no such thing as a true doubletap with slugs which is why I qualify with "kinda", "point blank" and "lo-recoil". My results at slug doubletap attempts have the second shot impacting 8-10", maybe even a full foot above the 1st shot but still roughly centered with the "lo-recoil" stuff in a ported gun at a 6-8 foot target distance on a full IPSC target (enough qualifiers in there for everybody?). Getting 2 A's on an IPSC target would be iffy at more than muzzle length. Holding low I can get 1 low C and 1 high A most of the time at 6-8'. That isn't really a doubletap, without "snake eye's" pairs of A's it's just wild shooting. A few years ago I setup a stage at one of our local shotgun only matches where you shot 8 full IPSC targets at 5 feet distance with slugs to end the stage (twice each of course). Believe it or not, lotsa mikes were recorded that day on those targets. My own attempts to put two "full house" slugs anywhere on the same "point blank" target at max speed were embarassing, I too can't see that being easily done. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted August 16, 2003 Author Share Posted August 16, 2003 Guys, fantastic response, a lot of good advice and just what I needed. I really appreciate the help. Kurt, I was going to ask all your advice on the practice range at ESC, and quietly scope the threat you pose !! Good luck shooting at the RM 3gun comp next weekend, and if anyone can lose / steal a small but vital part of Kurt's shotgun for me the rewards will be substancial ! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Mike: I can assure you I "pose" no threat, as if I stood still that long I wouldn't be able to find my shotgun as it is cammo!! I hadn't really planed on shooting any slugs since I will have brought most of my own to shoot and they have Remington slugs for sale which I am sighted in for. Key word, sighted in. As one of the directors I won't be shooting the match (RM3G) for score or prizes. I will however shoot in all the stages and keep my score to see how I would have done if I had shot for score. For my eyes only. Nobody will be able to help you Mike by stealing small yet critical parts from my shotgun as every night I just lean it against a tree and NOBODY can find it!!! even me sometimes!!! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Hi guys, did you ever think you could go unnoticed talking about that BIG competition starting in a week? Ya know, I'm not a Jedi as proficient as Darth. but my senses are always alert! For your information, we got a request from an Argentino competitor that asked if we could find a spot for him to train, and I think we can provide it on the range. He will be arriving on aug. 21st, thus if you think you might enjoy joining him for some live-fire training, just drop me a note (maybe we won't be able to handle a large number of requests, but I think a few can be accomodated). Remember, nothing goes unnoticed to a Jedi (at least for the first 4/5 beers, then everithing it's going to be a little fuzzy...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Skywalker, Count Kurt and I in for the practice range. Your Jedi mind weld is as stong as ever.....these are not the androids we are looking for !! See you in a week Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Hi Mike, This is a very interesting post with a lot of good advice. I am no expert at shooting 3-gun style shotgun as I only started this year. I did not have the opportunity to get any training on shooting slugs prior to going to a tactical shotgun class. I ended up, much to my surprise, winning the slug portion of a little competition during the class. I approached shooting the AR and the Benelli the same way that I shoot my ‘06, which is to hold it tight to my shoulder, breath out and squeeze the trigger. It seemed to work great for me that day. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Whatever works for you, go with it. You might try this: square up to the target as in both toes on the line, shoulder width apart. put your weight forward onto your toes - almost to the point of falling forward with the gun on target. Do NOT mount the gun on your shoulder. Instead, place the butt squarely on the centerline of your chest & high enough to get your cheek down on the stock. Pull the but into your chest & keep that head down. Now try shooting fast & compare your splits & hits to your normal method. Remember Brian's ancedote about how when he started out, all the top shooters told him to use the "correct" grip - then he expiramented w/ many variations & discovered something better. Will this stance work for you? One way to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Kurt, as you know, if you lean my benelli against a tree, you would not be able to see it with my specical camo paint either . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillL223 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I use the same stance and grip with slugs as I do with shot. However, I handload specifically for 3-Gun using Lyman 525 gr slug, Win F114 Wad, Win AA hulls, and enough Univeral Clays to get 1200 fps. This is about the same speed as a Federal Tactical but the projectile is about 1.2 oz instead of 1 oz. I developed this load to cycle my Benelli every time, something the Federal load didn't. In a match last year I doubled tapped a swinger with a .15 break with both shots within 3", unfortunately they were both "D's" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Guys, Just got back from my 2 days cramming learning to shoot slug and have to thank you for all your advice. After I found my make of slug shot point of aim at 30m and was much softer shooting than I expected (Sellier and Bellot 67mm 1oz) things went great. I can now shoot it fast and accurately and if I got a Delta it was purely my fault as I snatched and was trying to go too fast. Only 3 mikes in the whole 200 rounds, all shot against the timer on various stages, and all on moving targets. Lesson...take my time on bobbers and make sure they count! Going to the comp with new confidence...thanks. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Hard time for all other competitors... Alas, I don't shoot shotguns, I'll just watch the show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I got a little crazy today. While twix was shooting his baby AR at 100 yards from the bench, I thought I'd do the same with my 1100 and some standard Winchester 1oz. slugs. After the first shot from the bench, I realized from the extreme pain in my shoulder and right cheek exactly why I usually shoot reduced recoil slugs and then from offhand only. I still don't understand what I kept going, though. Then ... and I'm coming back to topic ... I decided to show twix how I can double tap with full power slugs. I know I can hit that way at 25 yards or less, but at 100 I'm not even sure if my first shot hit, much less the second. It sounded cool going fast, though. It didn't feel very good, though. I can barely raise my right arm. But I double tapped with slugs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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