Night sights for night match?

[AustinMike]

I'm gearing up a Glock 17 for the occasional night match and a night stand gun. I've got a rail mounted LED light already and a holster for it. Those who have shot night matches, are night sights useful at all or does the light illuminate things enough? If night sights are recommended, which ones do you suggest?

[Nik Habicht]

I'm gearing up a Glock 17 for the occasional night match and a night stand gun. I've got a rail mounted LED light already and a holster for it. Those who have shot night matches, are night sights useful at all or does the light illuminate things enough? If night sights are recommended, which ones do you suggest?

Indoors white lights often kick back enough light to allow the sights to work black on black. Outdoors, night sights really help. In shooting 4 IDPA Winter Nats on the S&W Indoor range, I've got to say that night sights were essential on a few stages. My carry/house guns all wear them --- my theory is it's better to have and not need, than the other way around....

[esskay]

I just shot another night match this weekend; have probably shot 4 night matches in total, all outdoor.

Things I've noticed from those outdoor matches:

* Assuming that you are using a flashlight (weapon mounted or handheld) night sights can be helpful but don't necessarily seem mandatory. On different occasions I've used guns with and without night sights (both with weapon mounted lights) and found that for me it did help, but I was also able to get rounds on target without them. This past weekend, I noticed that a couple folks on my squad did not have night sights and shot very well. Without any illumination, I couldn't shoot very well without night sights. I'd agree with Nik, if your Glock is also going to be a HD gun, I'd opt for night sights on it. Some like 3 dots, some just like one in the front sight. I read somewhere that someone makes a rear sight with a smaller, less bright tritium insert so you get the benefit of seeing where your rear sight is but it's less distracting. I also have a Wilson that has different color inserts on the front and back. I have Trijicon, Meprolight, Ameriglo, they all function well.

* Laser sights seemed kinda like shooting open vs limited. I experimented shooting with and without the laser on and it made an enormous difference with my times.

* You can go off the rails pretty quick in night matches. You miss, smoke is everywhere, it's harder to see, you miss again, the smoke gets worse... I read somewhere that incandescent lights cut through smoke better than LED, but don't have any personal experience to back that up.

* I took out my HD shotgun for the match. It has a ghost ring setup and a tritium insert in the front sight. I could barely see it. We had one long range slug target on a stage. My 6V surefire foreend didn't do a great job illuminating it, so I slowed way down and after concentrating was able to just make out the outline of my front sight on the steel. Squeezed off the slug and hit it. I don't think the tritium made any difference.

Night matches are a blast! And humbling. And definitely make you realize low-light shooting is something that you should practice!

[el pres]

When using a rail mounted Tac light, or hand held, The sights are as clear

as day, as blocks. The nights sights come into play without light at all.

[G-ManBart]

I read somewhere that someone makes a rear sight with a smaller, less bright tritium insert so you get the benefit of seeing where your rear sight is but it's less distracting.

I had Dave at D&L Sports put a set of his custom sights on my wife's Smith 640. He mills the rear for the assembly which fits in a slot on the topstrap and then machines a front sight to the correct height for the ammo provided. The front sight has a larger, brighter tritium insert in it that's greenish in color. The rear has two smaller, dimmer tritium inserts that are white. It's a great setup, but I don't know if you can get something quite like this other than a custom job. The painful part was that the whole deal was about $400 total...yikes, but wifey wanted night sights, so wifey has night sights!

[-JQ-]

At a local USPSA match we had an indoor stage (~32 rounds IIRC) and the only light was from a police light bar flashing. I was shooting SS and luckily my CQB has WC night sights...They really helped. It was my first time to shoot in the dark and I was impressed with them...yellow rear/green front.

YMMV

[HighVelocity]

I've shot quite a few night matches and out of all the different night sights I've tried, the TruGlo TFO sights are by far the easiest to see in total darkness.

[kmitchl]

+1 on the TFO's. The fiber optic works well for me in lit areas and the tritium lamps really make the sights stand out in the dark. I can get closer to my normal grip using a flashlight when I don't have to get the flashlight high enough to light the sights as well as the target.

[esskay]

I read somewhere that someone makes a rear sight with a smaller, less bright tritium insert so you get the benefit of seeing where your rear sight is but it's less distracting.

I had Dave at D&L Sports put a set of his custom sights on my wife's Smith 640. He mills the rear for the assembly which fits in a slot on the topstrap and then machines a front sight to the correct height for the ammo provided. The front sight has a larger, brighter tritium insert in it that's greenish in color. The rear has two smaller, dimmer tritium inserts that are white. It's a great setup, but I don't know if you can get something quite like this other than a custom job. The painful part was that the whole deal was about $400 total...yikes, but wifey wanted night sights, so wifey has night sights!

Ah, found it -- Warren Tactical. Looks like maybe just for Glock & M&Ps

Here's an example of their 3 dot setup:

3 dot, "diminished" rear dots

And a 2 dot setup like the Heinie straight 8 sights:

2 dot, "diminished" rear dot

[Graham Smith]

I've shot defensive pistol night courses and most everyone agrees that night sights are only of much use is low light (not dark) situations. If it is dark, you need a flashlight. If you use a flashlight, it pretty much negates the night sights. Just put the light on the target and the dark sights will stand out on the illuminated target.

A good universal solution is the Safariland RLS which allows you to quickly clip a small LED flashlight onto your gun. I used one of these on the last night course and it was great.

[midvalleyshooter]

On my G17 I have Tru Dot night sights. They have a bright green dot front sight and slightly less bright orange dot rear sights. I used them in an outdoors match a couple months ago and they worked pretty good. Lighting can vary a lot at night, better to have the night sights than not have them.

Keith

[Duane Thomas]

Recently I went through the Firearms Academy of Seattle's Advanced Defensive Handgun Course - actually the second time for me, the first was back when it was called FAS-4. First time through I'd qualified for what they call the FAS Handgun Master rating. This time I was back to recertify. One of the drills on the Handgun Master test is, from the holster at five yards, inside the FAS dark house with very little ambient light available, draw and put a round inside the A-zone in 2.0 seconds or less. You have to do this six times in a row, all A-zone hits, all inside the time limit. With that little light, this is basically intended as a test of your index.

I was the only person in the class to pass this drill first time through. None of the guys whose guns had night sights (mine didn't) passed the drill. Actually, I felt that in this drill I had a major advantage - because the front sight on my carry gun has been painted with the contents of a 99 cent bottle of Halloween orange nail polish. Even in light so dim I could barely see the target - and all the night sight equipped guys spent entirely too much time trying to find and align those little dots - I could see my front sight.

A pistolsmith I know named Terry Boehler is also a member of his police department's SWAT team, and he commented to me, "Lately we've been doing a lot of work in dark houses. And I tell you what, you do much shooting in low light, eventually you're going to wind up with an orange front sight."

[AustinMike]

One of the matches I plan to shoot mandates engaging a target array without a light, then using the light for the rest of the course. I'm thinking of getting at least a night sight on the front. The single lamp rear available on the Warren Tactical is interesting too, kind of like the Heinie Straight 8. I'm using Warren sights on my Production gun anyway, so I'm used to that sight picture. I've used 3-dot FOs in the past, but 3 glowing dots may be too distracting, at least in a match.

Edited November 14, 2008 by AustinMike

[Nik Habicht]

Duane,

your abservation makes a lot of sense --- though I don't think the night sights per se are to blame. The others in the class likely spent their time trying to see more than they needed to see, versus seeing just what they needed to see and calling it good. On a 5 yard USPSA target in daylight I don't expect to see more than the front sight in the A zone, often it's as little as a flash of front sight in the A zone, so why would I want to see more in the dark? I could see it taking slightly longer to see the same thing --- due to lack of brightness and contrast --- but it's still a five yard target, and you can hit too slow....

[Joe4d]

Most likely to level the field I have never seen a low light or dark stage that allowed a weapon mounted light at the start. Some allowed you to mount it after the buzzer. I also dont think defensive guns should have mounted lights either but that's a different subject. I like a tritium front only for low light but I have seen a C class shooter with a bum leg dominate with a laser. I normally would count lasers as gadgets but they are tremendous assets in the dark.

[JGB]

I've shot quite a few night matches and out of all the different night sights I've tried, the TruGlo TFO sights are by far the easiest to see in total darkness.

How do the TFO's work? Do you need to be concerned about degradation of the fiber optic the same way you do with regular fiber optic front pistol sights? Is the Fiber replaceable or is it part of the tritium unit?

[esskay]

Most likely to level the field I have never seen a low light or dark stage that allowed a weapon mounted light at the start. Some allowed you to mount it after the buzzer. I also dont think defensive guns should have mounted lights either but that's a different subject. I like a tritium front only for low light but I have seen a C class shooter with a bum leg dominate with a laser. I normally would count lasers as gadgets but they are tremendous assets in the dark.

Perhaps a concern to have folks with hot weapons trying to slide on a weaponlight right underneath their muzzle in the dark?

Night matches I've been to have not allowed mounting after the buzzer. Can think of one in particular, in the interests of safety, that allowed shooters with weapon-mounted lights but without proper holsters to start with their gun in hand. Another recent one required weapons to be holstered and no mounting of lights after the buzzer - so either you had the right kind of holster for a weapon-mounted light or you used a handheld.