Open Division Grip pressure

[Aristotle]

I shot my first match in Open division the other day. I had 3 bad stages, 2 mediocre stages and 1 decent stage. All in all, I foresee a lot of work ahead of me if I want to stay above the crease line in Open.

One thing I was told was different in shooting an open gun was grip pressure. There were a few issues I had with the gun, that I'm still trying to decipher. I function tested the gun the day before and it ran great, but at the match, I had several failure to feeds. The bullet was not fully seating and my buddy thought that maybe I was limp wristing it. So my question is, how is your grip pressure suppose to be shooting an Open gun?

I also may think it could be my ammo, as I was running it a bit long (OAL 1.195-1.190) so I'm going to fool around with OAL some more. And I know for sure that one of my malfunctions was due to my big stick binding up, which I think is due to it being dirty or because of my ammo.

All in all, I love shooting open and would like to devote my entire next season to shooting and getting better in Open. I am classified in 4 divisions and open will be my 5th. But I think I may have found the division I want to really pursue and get better at. I bought a used open gun and am saving up for a custom build maybe next year. Going from shooting single stack, to shooting open sure is a whole different story.

[kgunz11]

What caliber? Might be useful information for load data.

[Al Capizzo]

Welcome to Open Division, probably, you're going to love it !

What caliber is your new Open gun in ? If you think some of your issues could be ammo related, check the reloading forum. LOTS of information there.

As I understand it, limp wristing keeps the slide from traveling fully rearward, so the timing of picking up the next round from a mag is altered. If your rounds are chambering but the slide isn't closing completely, you're probably right-that it is an OAL issue.

Can you give us a little more detail about the malfunctions you're having? What was the difference in ammo from your function testing and the match?

[Jake Di Vita]

Get your stance and grip to the point where you think you are being too aggressive, and that's probably just about right.

[larry cazes]

I use a pretty strong grip pressure balanced 50/50 between strong and weak hand. I find that the dot tracks better and quicker than if I relax my grip a bit. This was not always the case, though. My previous open gun was a long heavy 38sc with not much slide lightening and only moderate slide velocity given 170+ pf loads. Last year I had Dan Bedell build me a long 38sc with quite a bit of slide lightening and now that dynamic seems reversed. I definitely prefer this setup.

[G-ManBart]

Get your stance and grip to the point where you think you are being too aggressive, and that's probably just about right.

+1

In looking at the pics the Photomotion folks took at the Nationals, it's very clear that I'm really cranking down pretty hard on my grip by the look of my forearms while shooting. The pics during long transitions show that I've eased up considerably on the grip pressure. R,

[Aristotle]

sorry guys, here's what I've got. An SVI 9mm Major. The previous owner had some slide lightening. It's running a .355 Shuemann Ultimatch barrel that has 2 Popple holes. And the comp is a Bedell 7 Port.

I removed the JPoint slide mounted optic he had on it, and replaced it with a CMore Serendipity and added a Brazos Pro Series Trigger group.

pictures:

This may also help, here are videos from my match:

[Aristotle]

Oh, and load recipe I am using is:

- 7.9-8.0 of Ramshot Sillouette

- Montana Gold 124gn CMJ

- MagTech SPP

- OAL 1.195-1.190 (I had a few 1.82-1.85 bullets in there as well. I need to figure out why my variances are so off on OAL with my press)

Also, magazines are SVI bodies, Grams followers, I don't know what kind of springs and Dawson +1 base pads.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Aristotle

[blkbrd]

Get your stance and grip to the point where you think you are being too aggressive, and that's probably just about right.

[Flexmoney]

I see shooters switch to Open and it seems they kinda expect a bit of magic to happen because it's an open gun and it just has to be better. When they realize that they are still ...by far...the biggest part of the shooting system, then they start shooting better.

That gun seems to have a lot of "action" to it.

Work Burkett's timing drills. Be aware and experience the grip for yourself.

[Aristotle]

Thanks Flex. I'm also thinking about ditching this gas pedel. It's a totally different grip for me and puts my wrist at a wierd angle.

To me it's still all about fun. I switched to open to have fun, and I did. When this is no longer fun, is the day I'm going to hang up my holster. But I realize I have a long ways to go, till I make it even more fun by winning.

Thanks all.

[Sandro]

I was looking for the same info; there is some good reading here

DVC,

Sandro

[Flexmoney]

I'm also thinking about ditching this gas pedel. It's a totally different grip for me and puts my wrist at a wierd angle.

Might as well lose it. It's not doing you any good. Sounds like it is a variable that you don't need to add into your shooting anyway.

To me it's still all about fun. I switched to open to have fun, and I did. When this is no longer fun, is the day I'm going to hang up my holster. But I realize I have a long ways to go, till I make it even more fun by winning.

Open is fun. Get that gun running 100% and you will have a blast. For sure.

[DonT]

Good read. What Jake and Flex said is right on. I started shooting open this year and the guys would kid me and scold me for having a death grip on the gun and being so tense. At first, the gun just wasn't comfortable to me. It seemed awkward even though it was setup as close as I could get to my limited gun. I just didn't have the confidence in shooting this open gun that I did with my limited so I knew I was tense and so did everyone else.

When I had about 2000rds through the gun, I was ready to sell it. I thought open was not for me. One of my shooting buddies (Master Class) took me aside one day and set up a few targets and had me run drills. He only spent about an hour with me in a one on one practice session and that was all it took. I gained so much confidence and started to feel the gun. I still death grip the gun but without the tension. I am comfortable with the gun now and I have about 4000rds through it. Now I love open, and to think, if he had not taken the time to give me a few pointers, I may never have shot open again.

[JThompson]

I'd bring that overall length back to 1.165 and see if you still have issues going into battery. At the very least I would take a bunch of rounds and make sure the drop all the way in the chaber and that there is no gap. There is a possibility you are running into the rifling.

Edited October 28, 2008 by JThompson

[boz1911]

I agree with Flex, switching to Open is not as easy as one might think. Your grip will develop with more time shooting. I prefer the *thumb rest [generic]* on my gun now, although it did take a little getting used to. I load my ammo to 1.175 and also use SV tubes with no issues whatsoever.

It was interesting that several people on my squad at the Ga state match were "surprised" at how well my gun ran all day. Hell I thought it was supposed to....

[racegun9]

If you shorten your OAL down to the 1.160---1.170" area,

I would make sure to drop your powder charge as well.

and work your way back up.

7.3 to 7.6 should be enough unless you have a bunch of

barrel holes.

[Aristotle]

If you shorten your OAL down to the 1.160---1.170" area,

I would make sure to drop your powder charge as well.

and work your way back up.

7.3 to 7.6 should be enough unless you have a bunch of

barrel holes.

7 port comp and 2 popples on the barrel. But I'm going to drop it down a hair to 7.8 and chrono it at 1.175 OAL.

[Flexmoney]

Shortening the OAL will increase the pressure. Best to back it down, then come back up a bit at a time...checking for signs of over-pressure as you go. Lowering a tenth probably isn't enough to off-set the difference in shortening the OAL. I'd go to at least as low as 7.5...and that is if I knew the powder well. Since I don't know the powder that well, I'd go to 7.3 and start there with 10-20 rounds or so. Then, then 10-20 more at each 0.10 grain increment.

If your chrono as you go...record the results and check for signs of pressure at each increment. Police your brass as you go and keep it sorted. As an added bonus, you will have that data and brass as information. You will know your load more completely.

[Aristotle]

Gotcha. I'm going to make up some loads now and chrono on Thursday.

signs of pressure? = flattened primers, and?

[G-ManBart]

Gotcha. I'm going to make up some loads now and chrono on Thursday.

signs of pressure? = flattened primers, and?

cratered primers (raised ridge around the firing pin mark) and smeared primers where they've melted/rubbed off on the breach face are the next two likely signs of overpressure.

I have a friend at a major barrel manufacturer that's been doing some pressure testing with Major 9 loads. They don't have all the data run yet, but he passed along one very disturbing fact: They've seen pressures jump 10,000 cup with as little as .01" change in seating depth Keep in mind he shoots Major 9 in Open, so it's not like he's trying to make it look bad or anything.

I'd back off several tenths and see what happens with the new oal.

[JThompson]

If you shorten your OAL down to the 1.160---1.170" area,

I would make sure to drop your powder charge as well.

and work your way back up.

7.3 to 7.6 should be enough unless you have a bunch of

barrel holes.

Good point!! Thanks for letting him know.

[JThompson]

Shortening the OAL will increase the pressure. Best to back it down, then come back up a bit at a time...checking for signs of over-pressure as you go. Lowering a tenth probably isn't enough to off-set the difference in shortening the OAL. I'd go to at least as low as 7.5...and that is if I knew the powder well. Since I don't know the powder that well, I'd go to 7.3 and start there with 10-20 rounds or so. Then, then 10-20 more at each 0.10 grain increment.

If your chrono as you go...record the results and check for signs of pressure at each increment. Police your brass as you go and keep it sorted. As an added bonus, you will have that data and brass as information. You will know your load more completely.

I run 8.3 SIL in mine at that length so it should be cool, but better to be safe. I make about 172-4 with 1.165 MG CMJ or PD FMJ That's on the high end of what most people use... my barrel has always been a bit slow.