Careers Guidance

[JKSNIPER]

Nemo,

I'm currently LE (22+ years) and did a 4 year tour in the USMC.

L.E. is a good career.

Dept I'm with is paid good, good benefits 20 year retirement and has never had a layoff in its history.

Civil service is a good stable dependable career.

Downside is you end up taking orders from or working for (at times) idiots who are a waste of human skin.

You also tend to see people when they are at their worst (no one dials 911 just to have us come over and tell us how great eveything is whel we drink coffee together) and see a LOT of death and tragedy.

Every once in a while you get to experience the terror that they warn you about in the academy. (99 percent of this job is boring with 1% of sheer terror) and let me tell you its not all its cracked up to be.

Bennies are good time off especially during pre-Christmas season. While everyone else is at work you can get your shopping done. Downside is you wind up working the holiday especially when you're new and get to see some REALLY good reasons why some people should not be alowed to reproduce or get married and reproduce.

Try and arrange a "ride along" with your local Dept to see if your kids are interested in it..

My dept has a civilian police academy and they run the people through a much abbreviated version of our training and they then get to do a few ridealongs to see how our job is.

Funny thing is during role plays or shoot-no shoot training? Most of the civilians tend to use WAY more force than needed or then should be used during a given situation.

I watched a film on tis and an old lady who had previously criticized the police saying she thought they fired their weapons too much was given a scenario and the guy in it just turned and ran when she tried to question him about a larceny and sh drew down and SHOT at him!

Funny stuff.

JK

[CSEMARTIN]

Nursing School --- if they're smart and tough; there's a projected shortage for the next 20 years I think.....

Nursing is a great field to go into right now. Nik is right! There is going to be a shortage. I kind of think there is one now. With a nursing degree, you can do a lot of things. I'd head in the direction of becoming an anesthetist. There is a huge demand for anesthetists, and the pay is incredible!! You can make more as a nurse anesthetist than you can as a family practitioner.

I strongly discourage anyone from going to medical school. Our population is aging, and Medicare funding isn't getting better. Overhead rises every year and malpractice insurance isn't cheap. The liability is terrible. Anyone can sue you, and they don't even need a good reason. Since it's often cheaper to settle, guess what happens? I just received a letter of intent to file a lawsuit from a gangbanger's lawyer in Michigan that I took care of as the Trauma Chief during residency. I gave the guy 36 units of blood (which is the equivalent to bleeding to death three times) during a several hour long operation. He ended up losing his leg, but he lived. The hours are horrible. The stress level isn't so great either. As a doc, you work holidays, weekends, weird hours and you constantly get to deal with people with a sense of entitlement. There is nothing worse than having your pager go off right as you're getting ready to go to bed only to get back up, get dressed and head to the ER to take care of a drunk that crashed his motorcycle. Being a doctor isn't a privilege--it's a prison sentence.

[kevin c]

Nemo, do what you can to CONVINCE them that they absolutely MUST put $100 per month into an investment of some kind starting the day they get a job, and every year they MUST increase that by $25 per month. Come hell or high water that money MUST be invested, mutual funds or something. These kids don't have a real chance even of a funded retirement plan, they are on their own and starting early is essential to having a chance at retiring comfortably.

Excellent advice. Every dollar saved now gives them back a dollar a year at retirement.

Teach them how to save, not spend. Tell them to get a latte only every other day, down load tunes less often and carpool, and they'll already have 100 to 150 dollars a month to put away. Put that into a tax advantaged account and they'll already have a couple grand a year salted away.

Tell them to read "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko - a real eye opener.

Medical fields will always be in demand, but being an MD, I have to say, is a big commitment of time, energy and resources for less and less of a financial payoff (though there is reasonably good job security). For a growing field, I'd go opposite of what I do now and find something in geriatric medicine.

[John Dunn]

Like CSEMARTIN I'd avoid med school unless they wouldn't be happy with anything else. The problem with medicine is that it is labor intensive with large overhead. If I don't go to work, no money is being made, the overhead keeps rolling along.

Some of my friends who own companies (drilling, HVAC) have employees. When the boss is on vacation, the employees are still working..earning him money. This is a good thing.

Intellectual property like software programs, books, music, inventions is also nice because you can do the work once...but continue earning money over time.

[ranger]

Do not forget the dual career opportunities with the military reserves. In some ways, this offers a unique blend of the good and bad of both a civilian career and a military career.

I have 26 years of active duty and National Guard now so at age 60 I start drawing military medical plus my pension. The National Guard sent me to a series of schools that directly benefited my civilian career (I am an engineer in the pulp and paper industry). Yes, in today's world, you may deploy every few years but that is part of the commitment.

I have a 20 year old son and an 18 year old daughter. My duaghter is working on a four year Radiology program - I think a medical field is great. My son is taking a general business degeree now but I am shamelessly encouraging him to consider the GA Army National Guard OCS program followed by the military sending him to PA school.

[Viggen]

Engineering, IT, Business if College bound.

If college is not in the game plan then move into the business world and learn.

There is no magic path. If you have ability and brains and drive you will do well in the business world.

But there is one absolute rule for anyone with ability:

Absolutely avoid the military and government careers. Don't waste yourself and your time.

---------------

About the military and government careers, why do you say that?

O-1s (Army and Air Force 2nd Lieutenants) with less than 2 years experience, single w/o dependents, in the DC area, make just over $30,500 in base pay, plus a non-taxable Basic Allowance for Housing of $18,960, plus an non-taxable Basic Allowance for Subsistence of $2430 for a total annual salary of $51,890. Of that, over 40% isn't even taxed!

d![/b]

Does that really sound that bad for a guy with a four year college degree? How many other careers offer comparable benefits for most college grads these days?

-------------

I will answer it from the approach that you present, the economic perspective and thank you from asking from that perspective.

Please remember the question was about advice for youngsters still in High School without qualifications, they would be looking at the enlisted world.

Information obtained from usmilitary.about.com so blame them if the numbers have moved.

The pay for an E-2(Enlisted Pay Grade 2) with less than two years -gross pay is $1474.40. This is for 24/7/30. Break it down and that comes to $2.04 per hour.

An E-3 (Enlisted Pay Grade 3) with 3 years in comes to 1692 per month, or when we break it down it comes to 2.35 per hour.

An E-5 (a Buck Sergeant) with 5 years in makes $2273.70 or $3.16/hour.

On base pay all taxes apply.

If the enlisted person qualifies for Imminent Danger Pay, we called it Combat Pay, they receive an additional $225 per month.

To qualify for this additional pay requires one day of the month to be in a Designated Combat Zone. They don't have to be there the whole month.

Should they so qualify they would pay no Federal Income Tax on the money but Social Security and Medicare would still be deducted. State taxes would depend on the tax laws of the individual state.

Right now there are 23 countries and 5 sea areas, a total of 28 that are Current Designated Combat Zones so any enlistee's do have a pretty good shot at the $225.

I'm assuming that the young potential enlistee is single. If married the Food Stamps program is well used among young enlisted military families.

Medical care, think Walter Reed.

Long term, think an unfunded, underfunded VA system.

Without creating thread drift I can safely say that there may be better options for someone with ability and drive. No politics, no philosophy, straight economics.

No need to shut down the thread.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Viggen

[shred]

IT (specifically programming, support and that sort of thing) isn't that great a place to be these days. You can still do well if you're good, but it's a lot tougher than in the mid 90's with a lot of the basics going offshore and a whole lot of experienced folks in their 30's and 40's that aren't going anywhere soon. Were I to get a 'redo' on the career thing and didn't want to start my own business (which is where it's at if you want to do really well), I'd think hard about high-end medical-- maybe radiology and/or imaging or something law-ish like patent or IP law, but those fit my temperament well-- whoever has to pick what they're good at and do that.

[mpolans]

Engineering, IT, Business if College bound.

If college is not in the game plan then move into the business world and learn.

There is no magic path. If you have ability and brains and drive you will do well in the business world.

But there is one absolute rule for anyone with ability:

Absolutely avoid the military and government careers. Don't waste yourself and your time.

---------------

About the military and government careers, why do you say that?

O-1s (Army and Air Force 2nd Lieutenants) with less than 2 years experience, single w/o dependents, in the DC area, make just over $30,500 in base pay, plus a non-taxable Basic Allowance for Housing of $18,960, plus an non-taxable Basic Allowance for Subsistence of $2430 for a total annual salary of $51,890. Of that, over 40% isn't even taxed!

Does that really sound that bad for a guy with a four year college degree? How many other careers offer comparable benefits for most college grads these days?

-------------

I will answer it from the approach that you present, the economic perspective and thank you from asking from that perspective.

Please remember the question was about advice for youngsters still in High School without qualifications, they would be looking at the enlisted world.

Information obtained from usmilitary.about.com so blame them if the numbers have moved.

The pay for an E-2(Enlisted Pay Grade 2) with less than two years -gross pay is $1474.40. This is for 24/7/30. Break it down and that comes to $2.04 per hour.

An E-3 (Enlisted Pay Grade 3) with 3 years in comes to 1692 per month, or when we break it down it comes to 2.35 per hour.

An E-5 (a Buck Sergeant) with 5 years in makes $2273.70 or $3.16/hour.

On base pay all taxes apply.

If the enlisted person qualifies for Imminent Danger Pay, we called it Combat Pay, they receive an additional $225 per month.

To qualify for this additional pay requires one day of the month to be in a Designated Combat Zone. They don't have to be there the whole month.

Should they so qualify they would pay no Federal Income Tax on the money but Social Security and Medicare would still be deducted. State taxes would depend on the tax laws of the individual state.

Right now there are 23 countries and 5 sea areas, a total of 28 that are Current Designated Combat Zones so any enlistee's do have a pretty good shot at the $225.

I'm assuming that the young potential enlistee is single. If married the Food Stamps program is well used among young enlisted military families.

Medical care, think Walter Reed.

Long term, think an unfunded, underfunded VA system.

Without creating thread drift I can safely say that there may be better options for someone with ability and drive. No politics, no philosophy, straight economics.

No need to shut down the thread.

But just to clarify, the salaries you cite above for enlisted personnel don't include Basic Allowance for Subsistence ($294.43/month, tax free), or free housing or Basic Allowance for Housing (for an E-3 around here would be $1304.00, tax free and any unused remainder can be kept), nor any specialty pays. Assuming the E-3 get BAH, that really makes it more like $39,485, with a lot of that as tax free. Even without the BAH, that's $23,837 with free medical/dental and housing (which cost me $140/month and $1050/month respectively), plus lots of benefits, and a decent retirement plan after 20 years.

Perhaps that's not raking in the big bucks, but for a high school graduate without a degree, I wouldn't think that's too bad, is it?

I can think of a lot of drawbacks to military life, but these days, I wouldn't think pay would be one of them.

Edited September 7, 2008 by mpolans

[North]

Engineering, IT, Business if College bound.

If college is not in the game plan then move into the business world and learn.

There is no magic path. If you have ability and brains and drive you will do well in the business world.

But there is one absolute rule for anyone with ability:

Absolutely avoid the military and government careers. Don't waste yourself and your time.

---------------

About the military and government careers, why do you say that?

O-1s (Army and Air Force 2nd Lieutenants) with less than 2 years experience, single w/o dependents, in the DC area, make just over $30,500 in base pay, plus a non-taxable Basic Allowance for Housing of $18,960, plus an non-taxable Basic Allowance for Subsistence of $2430 for a total annual salary of $51,890. Of that, over 40% isn't even taxed!

Does that really sound that bad for a guy with a four year college degree? How many other careers offer comparable benefits for most college grads these days?

-------------

I will answer it from the approach that you present, the economic perspective and thank you from asking from that perspective.

Please remember the question was about advice for youngsters still in High School without qualifications, they would be looking at the enlisted world.

Information obtained from usmilitary.about.com so blame them if the numbers have moved.

The pay for an E-2(Enlisted Pay Grade 2) with less than two years -gross pay is $1474.40. This is for 24/7/30. Break it down and that comes to $2.04 per hour.

An E-3 (Enlisted Pay Grade 3) with 3 years in comes to 1692 per month, or when we break it down it comes to 2.35 per hour.

An E-5 (a Buck Sergeant) with 5 years in makes $2273.70 or $3.16/hour.

On base pay all taxes apply.

If the enlisted person qualifies for Imminent Danger Pay, we called it Combat Pay, they receive an additional $225 per month.

To qualify for this additional pay requires one day of the month to be in a Designated Combat Zone. They don't have to be there the whole month.

Should they so qualify they would pay no Federal Income Tax on the money but Social Security and Medicare would still be deducted. State taxes would depend on the tax laws of the individual state.

Right now there are 23 countries and 5 sea areas, a total of 28 that are Current Designated Combat Zones so any enlistee's do have a pretty good shot at the $225.

I'm assuming that the young potential enlistee is single. If married the Food Stamps program is well used among young enlisted military families.

Medical care, think Walter Reed.

Long term, think an unfunded, underfunded VA system.

Without creating thread drift I can safely say that there may be better options for someone with ability and drive. No politics, no philosophy, straight economics.

No need to shut down the thread.

But just to clarify, the salaries you cite above for enlisted personnel don't include Basic Allowance for Subsistence ($294.43/month, tax free), or free housing or Basic Allowance for Housing (for an E-3 around here would be $1304.00, tax free and any unused remainder can be kept), nor any specialty pays. Assuming the E-3 get BAH, that really makes it more like $39,485, with a lot of that as tax free. Even without the BAH, that's $23,837 with free medical/dental and housing (which cost me $140/month and $1050/month respectively), plus lots of benefits, and a decent retirement plan after 20 years.

Perhaps that's not raking in the big bucks, but for a high school graduate without a degree, I wouldn't think that's too bad, is it?

I can think of a lot of drawbacks to military life, but these days, I wouldn't think pay would be one of them.

I'm biased; but can think of no nobler cause than to fight for those that can't/won't fight for themselves. You may not agree with our choice; but that is a choice that we have given you. Please do not disparage us for protecting you.

[davidwiz]

Do they like math? Then maybe an engineering / financial career? Do they like science? Then maybe a engineering / medical career? Point is, see what they have an interest in, and then see what careers/jobs meld with that interest. If the high school is any good, the guidance counselor should be able to talk to them and give them some options.

If they wan to learn a trade, the military is a good way to do that, and with the GI Bill, a good way to pay for college.

[davidwiz]

'd think hard about high-end medical-- maybe radiology and/or imaging or something law-ish like patent or IP law, but those fit my temperament well-- whoever has to pick what they're good at and do that.

Patent law is *very* specialized. You absolutely *must* have an engineering degree in the specific field that you want to practice IP law. It would be difficult to have an electrical engineering degree and deciding you want to do pharmaceutical patents A lot of patent lawyers I knew worked in the industry before going to law school - though that is not necessary.

Doing copyright and trademark IP law, however, does not require a specific background and is, I think, relatively easy to pick up.

[Viggen]

Engineering, IT, Business if College bound.

If college is not in the game plan then move into the business world and learn.

There is no magic path. If you have ability and brains and drive you will do well in the business world.

But there is one absolute rule for anyone with ability:

Absolutely avoid the military and government careers. Don't waste yourself and your time.

---------------

About the military and government careers, why do you say that?

O-1s (Army and Air Force 2nd Lieutenants) with less than 2 years experience, single w/o dependents, in the DC area, make just over $30,500 in base pay, plus a non-taxable Basic Allowance for Housing of $18,960, plus an non-taxable Basic Allowance for Subsistence of $2430 for a total annual salary of $51,890. Of that, over 40% isn't even taxed!

Does that really sound that bad for a guy with a four year college degree? How many other careers offer comparable benefits for most college grads these days?

-------------

I will answer it from the approach that you present, the economic perspective and thank you from asking from that perspective.

Please remember the question was about advice for youngsters still in High School without qualifications, they would be looking at the enlisted world.

Information obtained from usmilitary.about.com so blame them if the numbers have moved.

The pay for an E-2(Enlisted Pay Grade 2) with less than two years -gross pay is $1474.40. This is for 24/7/30. Break it down and that comes to $2.04 per hour.

An E-3 (Enlisted Pay Grade 3) with 3 years in comes to 1692 per month, or when we break it down it comes to 2.35 per hour.

An E-5 (a Buck Sergeant) with 5 years in makes $2273.70 or $3.16/hour.

On base pay all taxes apply.

If the enlisted person qualifies for Imminent Danger Pay, we called it Combat Pay, they receive an additional $225 per month.

To qualify for this additional pay requires one day of the month to be in a Designated Combat Zone. They don't have to be there the whole month.

Should they so qualify they would pay no Federal Income Tax on the money but Social Security and Medicare would still be deducted. State taxes would depend on the tax laws of the individual state.

Right now there are 23 countries and 5 sea areas, a total of 28 that are Current Designated Combat Zones so any enlistee's do have a pretty good shot at the $225.

I'm assuming that the young potential enlistee is single. If married the Food Stamps program is well used among young enlisted military families.

Medical care, think Walter Reed.

Long term, think an unfunded, underfunded VA system.

Without creating thread drift I can safely say that there may be better options for someone with ability and drive. No politics, no philosophy, straight economics.

No need to shut down the thread.

But just to clarify, the salaries you cite above for enlisted personnel don't include Basic Allowance for Subsistence ($294.43/month, tax free), or free housing or Basic Allowance for Housing (for an E-3 around here would be $1304.00, tax free and any unused remainder can be kept), nor any specialty pays. Assuming the E-3 get BAH, that really makes it more like $39,485, with a lot of that as tax free. Even without the BAH, that's $23,837 with free medical/dental and housing (which cost me $140/month and $1050/month respectively), plus lots of benefits, and a decent retirement plan after 20 years.

Perhaps that's not raking in the big bucks, but for a high school graduate without a degree, I wouldn't think that's too bad, is it?

I can think of a lot of drawbacks to military life, but these days, I wouldn't think pay would be one of them.

I'm biased; but can think of no nobler cause than to fight for those that can't/won't fight for themselves. You may not agree with our choice; but that is a choice that we have given you. Please do not disparage us for protecting you.

Ok, so you are biased. And your advice to young people would be?? That is the reason for the thread.

What's your advice to the young?