Finally got the press set up

[kimmie]

Well - after a couple of months of just staring at it, I was up until 2am setting up my new dillon 550. The manual is great and the videos on you-tube even greater! (I really need a visual).

Anyway, I've searched the forum, I've searched on line, and I've read the books, but was wondering if someone can break down the ballistics part in a nutshell? Or at least tell me where to search here and on line. I've got a lot of great resources in fellow shooters at the area 7 match's and at my club but was wondering if someone here could put it in writing for me.

I shoot exclusively .45 limited-10 in a S&W 1911 DK. I occasionally shoot 9mm out of a Colt government 1911 style, just for steel matches. Most of my reloading will be for the 45 but I have a conversion set for the 9mm.

Up until now, I've been shooting just factory. Mostly Winchester, sometimes Magtech. Both really hot, I can handle it, but my second shot suffers. I want to make the power factor but cut down my recoil. And of course - up my accuracy!!!!

Do I want a lighter bullet? 185gr, 200gr? Or will I need more powder to get the velocity and then increase my recoil?

Fast powder? Slow powder?

I'm guessing semiwad. Jacketed???

The more I read and search, the more confused I get!

HELP!!!!!!!

And thanks.

Donna

[Al Capizzo]

THE Standard for .45 right now is Hogden's Clays at about 3.9 grains with a 230 grain Round Nose bullet. This is really a nice soft shooting load that will make major in most guns.

You can shoot jacketed, plated or Precision's coated bullets with this load and do just fine. Even cast lead, although that requires a bit more cleaning now and then. Which I don't ever do.

Good luck.

[kimmie]

Thanks so much!!!!! I also posted this on the beginners/reloading thread. Your answer is what I'm looking for. I'm leaning to Clays because of all I've read. Question though - why is a heavier bullet softer than a lighter one (230 vs 200). Because the lighter takes more powder?

Donna

[Merlin Orr]

THE Standard for .45 right now is Hogden's Clays at about 3.9 grains with a 230 grain Round Nose bullet. This is really a nice soft shooting load that will make major in most guns.

You can shoot jacketed, plated or Precision's coated bullets with this load and do just fine. Even cast lead, although that requires a bit more cleaning now and then. Which I don't ever do.

Good luck.

Great starting point. Buy a "big box" of Dave Long's Precision Black Bullets and an 8# jug of Clays and go to work. Yyou will not regret it....

[warpspeed]

Thanks so much!!!!! I also posted this on the beginners/reloading thread. Your answer is what I'm looking for. I'm leaning to Clays because of all I've read. Question though - why is a heavier bullet softer than a lighter one (230 vs 200). Because the lighter takes more powder?

Donna

In general, most people like a heavy bullet with a fast powder in a non-compensated gun. At equal power factor, the lighter bullets will feel "snappy" compared to the heavier bullets. Most people, but not everyone, like the softer push compared to the harsh snap.

Either way, compared to the factory ammo, it will feel much softer.

[kimmie]

THE Standard for .45 right now is Hogden's Clays at about 3.9 grains with a 230 grain Round Nose bullet. This is really a nice soft shooting load that will make major in most guns.

You can shoot jacketed, plated or Precision's coated bullets with this load and do just fine. Even cast lead, although that requires a bit more cleaning now and then. Which I don't ever do.

Good luck.

Great starting point. Buy a "big box" of Dave Long's Precision Black Bullets and an 8# jug of Clays and go to work. Yyou will not regret it....

Thanks for the advice. Round nose? Semi? 225grain? My goal, accuracy and less recoil.

Donna

[Merlin Orr]

THE Standard for .45 right now is Hogden's Clays at about 3.9 grains with a 230 grain Round Nose bullet. This is really a nice soft shooting load that will make major in most guns.

You can shoot jacketed, plated or Precision's coated bullets with this load and do just fine. Even cast lead, although that requires a bit more cleaning now and then. Which I don't ever do.

Good luck.

Great starting point. Buy a "big box" of Dave Long's Precision Black Bullets and an 8# jug of Clays and go to work. Yyou will not regret it....

Thanks for the advice. Round nose? Semi? 225grain? My goal, accuracy and less recoil.

Donna

Look HERE and buy the 230 rnf bullets. These are coated and, although your fingers get dirty, you will not be exposed to lead as the coating is over the entire bullet. These require less powder to make a specific velocity than jacketed, less cleaning required and cheaper - if that matters to you. Best bang for the buck in bullets...IMO.

[ben b.]

Is Clays in .45 loads as unforgiving for a new reloader as it might be in a .40?

[Merlin Orr]

No. Not at all. Clays is pretty much THE powder to shoot in .45.

Clays in .40, while some will argue otherwise, is likely to earn you the nickname"Old Gotcheye" or "4 fingered Dan...."

[Al Capizzo]

I think the theory relating to heavier vs. lighter bullets is the heavier bullet, moving slower, spreads the recoil over a longer period of time than a lighter, faster bullet. Probably even more important, the slide speed when it reaches the end of its travel is less, and that is a lot of mass. Since the slide weight isn't going to change from one bullet weight to another, it seems reasonable that we would want to slow all that weight down.

What I do know, for certain, is that Hogden Clays and a 230 bullets is the best load I've ever shot in .45.

And big + 1 for Precision bullets, if you can get them.

[ben b.]

I think the theory relating to heavier vs. lighter bullets is the heavier bullet, moving slower, spreads the recoil over a longer period of time than a lighter, faster bullet. Probably even more important, the slide speed when it reaches the end of its travel is less, and that is a lot of mass. Since the slide weight isn't going to change from one bullet weight to another, it seems reasonable that we would want to slow all that weight down.

What I do know, for certain, is that Hogden Clays and a 230 bullets is the best load I've ever shot in .45.

And big + 1 for Precision bullets, if you can get them.

The fact is that the Power Factor formula is highly influenced by bullet weight. It takes more powder, and therefore energy, to move the lighter bullets faster to reach an equal target Power Factor. More energy expended out the front necessarily means means more recoil. Until you add a comp.

Edited August 10, 2008 by ben b.

[kimmie]

O.K. now it makes sense. A 200 grain bullet needs to go 800fps to make 160 power factor. A 250 grain bullet only needs to go 650 fps to make the same power. Thus, 250 needs less powder and then less recoil. Wow - I'm a rocket scientist !!!!!!!!

[burntcrispy]

Big 1+ on Clays and Precisions. I started out just like you shooting Lim 10 with a .45 and started loading with a Dillion 550. After lots of research I chose the Clays/Precision combo and it is very soft shooting. I use 4.8 of Clays which gives me around 170 power factor.

If you decide to go with Precision bullets order them NOW. Last time I ordered some there was a 8-12 week wait. They are very popular right now as they are much cheaper than copper jacketed and in my opionion just as good or better.

[D. Manley]

"...I'm leaning to Clays because of all I've read. Question though - why is a heavier bullet softer than a lighter one (230 vs 200)..."?

Donna

Explained very well, HERE.

[kimmie]

"...I'm leaning to Clays because of all I've read. Question though - why is a heavier bullet softer than a lighter one (230 vs 200)..."?

Donna

Explained very well, HERE

O.K. Thanks! That makes perfect sense! Rob Leatham rocks. I actually had a chance to do the Babes w/Bullets class with Kippie Leatham a couple of years ago in Arizona - along with Julie, Kay, Lisa, Sheila and Judy Wooley - what an experience!!!!! I digress ------ but if you want to see pictures -------

http://picasaweb.google.com/deehmah/BabesW...key=vTf7KDLl2Ss

So now I'm wondering - why Clays, which is midburning as opposed to Bullseye which is fast burning when I'm using a 230 grain bullet?????

Donna

[D. Manley]

"...I'm leaning to Clays because of all I've read. Question though - why is a heavier bullet softer than a lighter one (230 vs 200)..."?

Donna

Explained very well, HERE

O.K. Thanks! That makes perfect sense! Rob Leatham rocks. I actually had a chance to do the Babes w/Bullets class with Kippie Leatham a couple of years ago in Arizona - along with Julie, Kay, Lisa, Sheila and Judy Wooley - what an experience!!!!! I digress ------ but if you want to see pictures -------

http://picasaweb.google.com/deehmah/BabesW...key=vTf7KDLl2Ss

So now I'm wondering - why Clays, which is midburning as opposed to Bullseye which is fast burning when I'm using a 230 grain bullet?????

Donna

Clays is a very fast powder only marginally slower than BE...and cleaner burning by far especially, at the lower pressure loads we're talking about here. Personally, I like Solo-1000 & VV N-310 (the latter pretty pricey) a lot...all very fast, soft & clean. WST is another alternative in the same neighborhood but that "black pepper" smell drives me nuts.

[kimmie]

thanks!!!! Clay's is winning. Clean is good!

And thanks everyone for all the advice!

Donna

[gino_aki]

If you do use polymer coated bullets, try to stick with the Precision bullets for their long bearing surfaces. My experience with poly-coated bullets of the traditional cast profile (lube groove) style is they tend to be less accurate; I'm surmising because the poly is slick enough to allow the bullet to skid down the barrel instead of engaging the rifling with the thin band bearing surface.

[kimmie]

If you do use polymer coated bullets, try to stick with the Precision bullets for their long bearing surfaces. My experience with poly-coated bullets of the traditional cast profile (lube groove) style is they tend to be less accurate; I'm surmising because the poly is slick enough to allow the bullet to skid down the barrel instead of engaging the rifling with the thin band bearing surface.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. Got the machine going and made my first batch. A friend who reloads helped me with the fine tuning and brought bullets and powder that he uses - so I used Berry's plated 230 rn and 5.3 of bullseye. As soon as I finish with what he gave me, I'm going to try the Clays. I'll probably stay with a coated bullet.

Donna

[D. Manley]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. Got the machine going and made my first batch. A friend who reloads helped me with the fine tuning and brought bullets and powder that he uses - so I used Berry's plated 230 rn and 5.3 of bullseye. As soon as I finish with what he gave me, I'm going to try the Clays. I'll probably stay with a coated bullet.

Donna

You sure won't have to worry about the slide cycling with that load.

[kimmie]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. Got the machine going and made my first batch. A friend who reloads helped me with the fine tuning and brought bullets and powder that he uses - so I used Berry's plated 230 rn and 5.3 of bullseye. As soon as I finish with what he gave me, I'm going to try the Clays. I'll probably stay with a coated bullet.

Donna

You sure won't have to worry about the slide cycling with that load.

I haven't fired it yet but was wondering if it would be kinda hot. Do you suggest less powder?5 grains? I'm used to shooting factory (pf of about 195!!!!) so anything less is better but I'd like it as soft as possible and still make PF. Got a lot of bullseye left so need to finish it up. Then I'm going to get Clay's.

Thanks.

Donna

[D. Manley]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. Got the machine going and made my first batch. A friend who reloads helped me with the fine tuning and brought bullets and powder that he uses - so I used Berry's plated 230 rn and 5.3 of bullseye. As soon as I finish with what he gave me, I'm going to try the Clays. I'll probably stay with a coated bullet.

Donna

You sure won't have to worry about the slide cycling with that load.

I haven't fired it yet but was wondering if it would be kinda hot. Do you suggest less powder?5 grains? I'm used to shooting factory (pf of about 195!!!!) so anything less is better but I'd like it as soft as possible and still make PF. Got a lot of bullseye left so need to finish it up. Then I'm going to get Clay's.

Thanks.

Donna

Looks like a max load maybe, a little over depending on whose data. I think 5.0 grains is considered the GI "Hardball" equivalent load. To quote another regular poster, 4.8 grains of BE makes a "mellow major" load.

[kimmie]

See - that's where the confusion starts. Lymans(49th edition) has bullseye at a starting of 3.8 and a max of 5.3. Speer has a start of 5.2 and a max of 5.7. And the Alliant site actually has 5.7 as a max. Thats with a fmj rn bullet. That's a lot of variation. So I thought 5.3 was right in the middle. I'll go down to 5 and chrono it.

Does the make of the bullet make that much difference (Berry vs. Speer vs Ranier) if they're all 230 fmj?

Thanks for the help.

Donna

[cajun 48]

If I'm not mistaken the barry's website recommends using the "lead" powder charge. There coating is softer than

fmj. Don't know ifn I missed anything in the posts but it might help.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Don't rule out the 200 grain Precision RN bullets. I like the snappier action of the slide. I think it gets back on target faster for me. I use Clays as well and load to 1.230 OAL. It takes about 4.5 grains of Clays in hot weather. If I was you I would buy some of the 230's and the 200's. I would chrono both to make sure they meet the power factor then shoot them in a match. You could also do some Bill drills with a timer to see which one gets you the most A's and lowest time. After all the timer doesn't lie. Let us know what you find out. Thanks, Eric