XL 650 flipping primers

[SteveM]

Hello,

First off, a little background on my experience level. I've been loading my own ammo for the past 18 years, mostly rifle ammo. For about the first 16 of these years I loaded only on a single stage press. Since then, I've begun loading pistol ammo on a SDB setup for 45 ACP. It's a great press and I will still use it but I wanted to give myself a little more versatility so I purchased a new XL 650.

The 650 is setup for 45 ACP, so far I've loaded 1000 rounds. My problem is, I get on average, two upside down or sideways primers per 100 rounds I load. I'm using Winchester Large Pistol primers. So far I have tried the following

1. Disassemble and clean primer unit and shell plate.

2. Try varying degrees of tightness on the shell plate.

3. Made sure primer punch was tight against the bottom of the fixture.

4. Inspected primer wheel and track with bright light and magnifier to look for any burrs.

5. Made sure primer station locator tab was adjusted to be away for the cartridge rim about the thickness

Of a business card.

None of these things have solved the problem. What I have finally done is position a bright light next to my press and observe the function by filling it with primers and cycling without any brass. What I noticed is, the opening in the shell plate where the primer goes up through, is not centered on the primer after it indexes. There is noticeably more room on one side and I can turn the shell plate back slightly by hand to center it. What this is causing is on occasion, a primer will catch the side of the shell plate hole and flip. Sometimes it ends up upside down and sometimes sideways. This is what is causing my problem and I see no way of adjusting anything to solve it. I even tried another shell plate from another conversion kit I have and it does the same thing. Almost like something is a hair out of alignment. Is this something that can be fixed? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

[Full Size]

I'll be watching this post. I have the same problem with 45 but 40 and 9mm no issues at all.

[dillon]

This is easily adjusted by repositioning the indexer block, stock#16671, slightly. This piece is bolted to the left side of the machine frame where the shaft comes out. It is held on by two bolts. The upper bolt hole is slotted, allowing you to tip the block to advance or retard the final position of the shellplate.

It helps if you wrap a bungee cord around the handle to hold it in the "seating a primer position". loosen the two mounting bolts; to make the shellplate rotate further, move the top of the block to the rear. To reduce the movement of the shellplate, move the top of the block towards the edge of your bench. Once it is aligned, tighten both bolts.

[SteveM]

Dillon,

Thanks for the info. On my press, both the top and bottom screw holes are slotted. Also, the goove in the indexer block fits snuggly to the rail on the press frame. There is no way to rotate the indexer block. I can loosen both screws and slide the entire indexer block either way. Is this correct or should the block be able to rotate instead of sliding the whole thing. The shell plate is indexing very slightly too far so I will slide the indexer block out towards me and see what happens.

[XD Niner]

Sliding it is the correct approach. The key is to get the rear side of the block in the correct position. It should be vertical for the best results and will be if you allow it to slide across both slots.

Dillon will send you a small tool for free that makes the adjustment process much easier. It fits over the primer punch and holds the shell plate in the correct position while you adjust the block. Just give them a call.

Edited July 23, 2008 by XD Niner

[Too_Slow]

I have a friend that was having these problems with his 650. He was stumped so he called me over to fix it. What I found was that the Platform was loose. I adjusted it so that it is in the correct position and tightened it down. We then ran it through a quick 100 rounds without a single problem. He is once again a happy camper.

Brian

[SteveM]

After all my adjustments trying to fix this problem, I was still having the occasional upside down or sideways primer. I tried something different yesterday.

When I begin the upstroke, I have a bullet in my left hand between my thumb and index finger. As the cartridge rotates from station 3 to station 4, I would place my middle finger behind the cartridge and ride it into station 4. I loaded 1000 rounds last night and no more primer issues and it really doesn't slow the process either. After a few hundered rounds this way, it kinda becomes natural. I guess it's a small price to pay for fixing my problem.

[Tom S.]

After all my adjustments trying to fix this problem, I was still having the occasional upside down or sideways primer. I tried something different yesterday.

When I begin the upstroke, I have a bullet in my left hand between my thumb and index finger. As the cartridge rotates from station 3 to station 4, I would place my middle finger behind the cartridge and ride it into station 4. I loaded 1000 rounds last night and no more primer issues and it really doesn't slow the process either. After a few hundered rounds this way, it kinda becomes natural. I guess it's a small price to pay for fixing my problem.

If that curred it, I have two things to say. First, make sure your shell plate is adjusted properly. The center bolt should allow it to turn freely, but without any slop. If it doesn't turn smoothly, take it off and look for dirt underneath. Clean and lightly re-lube. Second, make sure your press and bench is secure. This sounds kind of dumb, but you cannot have a 650 too secure. My bench top is two pieces of 3/4 plywood glued and screwed together with 1/4 hard board on top. Under the press, I made a metal plate that all four bolts go through so the individual bolts can't work into the wood. The net result: over the many years and thousands of 45 acp rounds, I've only had one flipped primer, and I suspect I did that loading it into the primer tube.

[scooterj]

After all my adjustments trying to fix this problem, I was still having the occasional upside down or sideways primer. I tried something different yesterday.

When I begin the upstroke, I have a bullet in my left hand between my thumb and index finger. As the cartridge rotates from station 3 to station 4, I would place my middle finger behind the cartridge and ride it into station 4. I loaded 1000 rounds last night and no more primer issues and it really doesn't slow the process either. After a few hundered rounds this way, it kinda becomes natural. I guess it's a small price to pay for fixing my problem.

If that curred it, I have two things to say. First, make sure your shell plate is adjusted properly. The center bolt should allow it to turn freely, but without any slop. If it doesn't turn smoothly, take it off and look for dirt underneath. Clean and lightly re-lube. Second, make sure your press and bench is secure. This sounds kind of dumb, but you cannot have a 650 too secure. My bench top is two pieces of 3/4 plywood glued and screwed together with 1/4 hard board on top. Under the press, I made a metal plate that all four bolts go through so the individual bolts can't work into the wood. The net result: over the many years and thousands of 45 acp rounds, I've only had one flipped primer, and I suspect I did that loading it into the primer tube.

If your casefeeder has any shake to it, brace it to the wall. You'll be surprised how much smoother the press will run.

[kmitchl]

I recently took the platform off my 650 to clean all the debris that had accumulated. I ordered the tool from Dillon to align the primer punch. After cleaning and using the alignment tool the press seems to run better than it ever has.

The alignment tool is pretty simple. It is a rod about 3/4" long. The OD is sized to fit through the opening in the bottom of the shell plate. One end had a hole about 1/4" deep sized to just slip over the pin in the large primer punch. The other end is sized for the small primer punch. With a lathe you could make the tool in about 20 minutes. Dillon will send one at no charge.

Keith

[Stefano]

This is easily adjusted by repositioning the indexer block, stock#16671, slightly. This piece is bolted to the left side of the machine frame where the shaft comes out. It is held on by two bolts. The upper bolt hole is slotted, allowing you to tip the block to advance or retard the final position of the shellplate.

It helps if you wrap a bungee cord around the handle to hold it in the "seating a primer position". loosen the two mounting bolts; to make the shellplate rotate further, move the top of the block to the rear. To reduce the movement of the shellplate, move the top of the block towards the edge of your bench. Once it is aligned, tighten both bolts.

Sorry, the indexer block # is 16671 or 16776 ??

[SteveM]

I do not have a case feeder. One of the first things I did was to make sure everything was nice and clean. I also played with the tightness of the shell plate. I tried it tight to the point that it would just cycle and have no movement at all when I would push down on the shell plate at station 4. I tried it loose to where it would cycle freely and have very slight movement when I press down on it at station 4. I tried it loose, tight, and in between. Nothing seemed to help, I'd still get 2 to 3 messed up rounds per 100 rnds loaded.

On a different note, I've now loaded 5000 40 S&W and had absolutely no problems at all. I works perfect without having to ride the round into station 4. Go figure.

Edited August 23, 2008 by SteveM

[kmitchl]

One other suggestion. When handling the filled primer tubes be particularly careful to keep them upright as they were filled and avoid shaking. I keep a tall drinking glass on my bench to hold filled primer tubes upright. There is enough clearance in the tubes to allow large primers to turn over if you don't handle carefully. Small primers don't seem to be so prone to this.

Keith

[professor]

Ran across this thread due to my 650 putting some small pistol primers in sideways, and then crushing them. This was after I did my first caliber conversion, which included going from large to small primers.

At any rate, the last concern about primers flipping inside the "filled" primer tubes prompted me to make this suggestion, which solved that problem AFAIK.

when filling a tube with just 100 primers, there's room for maybe 3 to 5 more primers in the pickup tube. It's this extra headspace that allows the top few to flip inside the tube if it is laid on its side or rattled around too much. I keep extra primers in a little box and use that to 'top off' each filler tube. Just shuffle the box and enough will flip the right way to fill each tube. That way, there is no space for primers to flip inside the tube. I imagine that the last couple of primers that are in the pickup lips of the filler tube will eventually spread them to the point that they don't hold any more, but that's a replaceable item. I'm usually loading all three tubes I have of one size primer, then using them up in one reloading session.