Plate Racks

[JThompson]

Plate racks legal for all level events? By plate rack I mean ones where the plates are hinged.

Thanks

[HoMiE]

As long as the plates fit the size in App. B5, at least one paper or popper target is used in conjunction.

4.3.1.4 Various sizes of metal plates may be used (see Appendix B5),

however, metal plates must not be used exclusively in a course

of fire. At least one authorized paper target or Popper must be

included in each course of fire.

[JThompson]

As long as the plates fit the size in App. B5, at least one paper or popper target is used in conjunction.

4.3.1.4 Various sizes of metal plates may be used (see Appendix B5),

however, metal plates must not be used exclusively in a course

of fire. At least one authorized paper target or Popper must be

included in each course of fire.

That's what I thought too, but one of the ROs I know didn't think so. I wasn't in the mood to argue, so I just made a mental note to bring it up here.

He mentioned something about them having the ability to be calibrated and that they didn't fall....? OKay....

Edited July 6, 2008 by JThompson

[HoMiE]

You can't challenge or calibrate plates, if hit and they don't fall, range equipment failure and reshoot.

[JThompson]

You can't challenge or calibrate plates, if hit and they don't fall, range equipment failure and reshoot.

Right. I understand that, but these plates CAN be calibrated.

[HoMiE]

You can't challenge or calibrate plates, if hit and they don't fall, range equipment failure and reshoot.

Right. I understand that, but these plates CAN be calibrated.

I know there are some racks that can be adjusted, but there is nothing in the rule book to address those types of racks. Appendix C1 only states procedures for poppers, all other steel...

4.3.1.6 Unlike Poppers, metal plates are not subject to calibration or calibration challenges. If a scoring metal plate has been hit but fails to fall or overturn, the Range Officer shall declare range equipment failure and order the competitor to reshoot the course of fire, after the faulty plate has been rectified.

[JThompson]

You can't challenge or calibrate plates, if hit and they don't fall, range equipment failure and reshoot.

Right. I understand that, but these plates CAN be calibrated.

I know there are some racks that can be adjusted, but there is nothing in the rule book to address those types of racks. Appendix C1 only states procedures for poppers, all other steel...

4.3.1.6 Unlike Poppers, metal plates are not subject to calibration or calibration challenges. If a scoring metal plate has been hit but fails to fall or overturn, the Range Officer shall declare range equipment failure and order the competitor to reshoot the course of fire, after the faulty plate has been rectified.

I think we are on the same page...

Thanks

[wide45]

The trick is that somebody should be watching the plates, whatever kind they are.

If the competitor gets an edge hit that fails to drop the plate, you have to be able to call the reshoot. Same if the plate falls when the stand is hit. It's important to try to be consistent.

Simply ignoring the possibility of an improper hit requiring a reshoot, is not following the rules.

We have cut back on the use of plates in club matches, and won't use them at all in a major.

[Boris Zaretsky]

The calibration of the plates, though not legal, should be done and limited ONLY to the fall-when-hit rule. Otherwise you'd have many annoying reshoots. We had a short stage with plates. RM calibrated it to make sure that they would not fall when the stand is hit. He probably succeeded only in his mind. I saw a man in our squad hitting the stand and plate fell. It was counted as a hit. What can I say?...

[ChuckS]

The trick is that somebody should be watching the plates, whatever kind they are.

If the competitor gets an edge hit that fails to drop the plate, you have to be able to call the reshoot. Same if the plate falls when the stand is hit. It's important to try to be consistent.

Simply ignoring the possibility of an improper hit requiring a reshoot, is not following the rules.

We have cut back on the use of plates in club matches, and won't use them at all in a major.

Paint the plates between shooters. No "Did not ... Did too ... Did not ... Did too..."

Paint (applied properly) doesn't lie.

Later,

Chuck

[Flexmoney]

+1

4.3.1.7 Metal scoring targets must, if hit, be painted after each competitor. An inadvertent failure to paint one or more targets prior to a competitor’s attempt at the course of fire shall not be grounds for a reshoot.

4.3.1.7.1 Level I matches are encouraged to paint whenever possible, but are not required to do so.

[wide45]

The trick is that somebody should be watching the plates, whatever kind they are.

If the competitor gets an edge hit that fails to drop the plate, you have to be able to call the reshoot. Same if the plate falls when the stand is hit. It's important to try to be consistent.

Simply ignoring the possibility of an improper hit requiring a reshoot, is not following the rules.

We have cut back on the use of plates in club matches, and won't use them at all in a major.

Paint the plates between shooters. No "Did not ... Did too ... Did not ... Did too..."

Paint (applied properly) doesn't lie.

Later,

Chuck

Only works if an RO checks each plate for signs of more or less than one hit, after every competitor.

Get real.

Edited July 7, 2008 by wide45

[Nik Habicht]

The trick is that somebody should be watching the plates, whatever kind they are.

If the competitor gets an edge hit that fails to drop the plate, you have to be able to call the reshoot. Same if the plate falls when the stand is hit. It's important to try to be consistent.

Simply ignoring the possibility of an improper hit requiring a reshoot, is not following the rules.

We have cut back on the use of plates in club matches, and won't use them at all in a major.

Paint the plates between shooters. No "Did not ... Did too ... Did not ... Did too..."

Paint (applied properly) doesn't lie.

Later,

Chuck

Only works if an RO checks each plate for signs of more or less than one hit, after every competitor.

Get real.

And if you have a solid CRO working the stage at a major that can't happen --- why exactly?

[ChuckS]

The trick is that somebody should be watching the plates, whatever kind they are.

If the competitor gets an edge hit that fails to drop the plate, you have to be able to call the reshoot. Same if the plate falls when the stand is hit. It's important to try to be consistent.

Simply ignoring the possibility of an improper hit requiring a reshoot, is not following the rules.

We have cut back on the use of plates in club matches, and won't use them at all in a major.

Paint the plates between shooters. No "Did not ... Did too ... Did not ... Did too..."

Paint (applied properly) doesn't lie.

Later,

Chuck

Only works if an RO checks each plate for signs of more or less than one hit, after every competitor.

Get real.

And if you have a solid CRO working the stage at a major that can't happen --- why exactly?

Thanks, Nik...

[wide45]

Did not say it can't happen.

Will say I've never seen it.

[Nik Habicht]

Did not say it can't happen.

Will say I've never seen it.

I buy that. If I were running any stage at a major, this is one of those things that I'd be looking out for, along with consistent resetting of any activators/moving targets/strange props. Normal paper and steel resets we're pretty used to doing --- it takes a little prep work to try and identify the possible trouble spots, but it's time well spent to enable the staff to run a consistent stage.....

Eliminating certain props helps with consistency (makes it easier), but also diminishes the diversity of the game. Seems like everything always involves a tradeoff....

[ChuckS]

Did not say it can't happen.

Will say I've never seen it.

Wow, really? All the matches (above a club match) that I have gone to have always painted steel. And I seem to recall being asked by a CRO to touch up a target that needed a little more paint. That was at sectionals, and level III matches like the Golden Bullet, Area 2 and 5.

Later,

Chuck

[JThompson]

Thank you gentleman for your wise council.

Best,

JT

[JFlowers]

I work the SC and NC Sectionals as a stage grunt (lift steel, paste, all that other stuff) and we have always tried to paint steel between shooters. We might forget once in a while, but its a pretty good bet if you don't hit the steel that we will know it.

[JKSNIPER]

Question guys,

If the shooter hits a steel plate but it does not fall and the R.O. SEES the hit on the plate does the shooter have to re-shoot or can the R.O. call it a hit?

If it was a good hit and he re-shoots the course and the plate fails to fall again does the shooter have to keep re-shooting the course until he gets it to fall?

Curious since I shoot production and sometimes the plates are set to fall for the Major guys but us 9mm twerp shooters weapons will not make the plates fall always.

JK

[wide45]

Question guys,

If the shooter hits a steel plate but it does not fall and the R.O. SEES the hit on the plate does the shooter have to re-shoot or can the R.O. call it a hit?

If it was a good hit and he re-shoots the course and the plate fails to fall again does the shooter have to keep re-shooting the course until he gets it to fall?

Curious since I shoot production and sometimes the plates are set to fall for the Major guys but us 9mm twerp shooters weapons will not make the plates fall always.

JK

No options at all. Competitor must reshoot.

No such thing as a good hit. If a bullet touches the plate, it's a hit.

4.3.1.6 Unlike Poppers, metal plates are not subject to calibration or calibration challenges. If a scoring metal plate has been hit but fails to fall or overturn, the Range Officer shall declare range equipment failure and order the competitor to reshoot the course of fire, after the faulty plate has been rectified.

The plates must fall to any hit, if they don't, they must be fixed, or replaced until they do. If that can't be done the stage should be tossed.

Edited July 9, 2008 by wide45

[ac4wordplay]

Question guys,

If the shooter hits a steel plate but it does not fall and the R.O. SEES the hit on the plate does the shooter have to re-shoot or can the R.O. call it a hit?

If it was a good hit and he re-shoots the course and the plate fails to fall again does the shooter have to keep re-shooting the course until he gets it to fall?

Curious since I shoot production and sometimes the plates are set to fall for the Major guys but us 9mm twerp shooters weapons will not make the plates fall always.

JK

This thread is about "steel plates". Your question asks about "steel plates", but your description of how they're "set to fall for the Major guys" makes me wonder if you're thinking about poppers... ?

edited to add: I just realized how old the thread (and the quoted post) was!

Edited May 26, 2012 by ac4wordplay

[bikerburgess]

The calibration of the plates, though not legal, should be done and limited ONLY to the fall-when-hit rule. Otherwise you'd have many annoying reshoots. We had a short stage with plates. RM calibrated it to make sure that they would not fall when the stand is hit. He probably succeeded only in his mind. I saw a man in our squad hitting the stand and plate fell. It was counted as a hit. What can I say?...

it would not be illegal to calibrate a adjustable plate rack during setup, the rule just makes it so you can't as the shooter ask for a calibration during the match.

Mike

[matgyver]

Holy thread revival! Praise the board!