mr1911 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I hope I don't offend anyone here because I love this site and think Brian is great, but I need to get this of my chest. All the psuedo-spiritual/mental-accent eastern philosophy just leaves me cold, I am a very spiritualy and mentaly aware person who practices inward examination and meditation through my own particular religion of Christianity, but I find "zen" in shooting sports to be quite rediculas despite the fact that some of the principals used are proven universal techniques. Once again I hope no one takes this personaly and I appologize if I have offended anyone as I know not all people agree with my personal views/beliefs either. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Whatever floats your boat (or ark ) I don't think anybody here will get too worked up one way or another. We don't get much religion talk here (though I do know of gun forums that are heavy into it). ... some of the principals used are proven universal techniques. Universal...that is kind of that idea that we look to apply to our shooting. I like to be well/broadly read in whatever discipline or study that I am involved in. The stuff that is universal over a variety of perspectives...that is the stuff that I examine more closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I think you will find this a very open minded crowd. As competitive shooters we are interested in what works. We also know quite well what works for one does not necessarily work for another. More specifically, as we seek to make our shooting better, it helps to understand not only that something does or does not work but why and how. As this is a hate rant a discussion is not really appropriate, but I would invite you to tell us what zen means to you (your definition may be different than mine for example, and we want to make sure we are discussing the same thing), why you find it ridiculous and how it hurt your shooting. Might need a separate thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I started a new thread here to discuss this. We might just want to let mr1911's hate stand and take our discussions there. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm a spiritual person, but also a scientist by training. I personally dislike it any time religion or philosophy is applied to things that are strictly based on empiricism. For example, diets. The metabolism of the human body is pretty well known, and science has shown us what is good to eat and what is not. Now there are diets that say we should eat this and not eat that based on some philosophical bent. I think that applying spirituality to human practices is our nature, just as it's our nature to anthropromorphize animals or inanimate objects. Even Einstein, a deeply spiritual person, did this when trying to disprove quantum mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 A little bit of Zen goes a long way with me...............hmmmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 It's interesting that this forum will occasionally get all dithery and pointed about certain political things (much to our demise, as The Forum Rules come treading heavily when this happens), but I don't know that we've ever much at all found ourselves buried in 'religious' rants or raves...... weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1911 Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 I think p99shooter said it much better than I did, in a way that doesn't sound like a religious hate rant; "I'm a spiritual person, but also a scientist by training. I personally dislike it any time religion or philosophy is applied to things that are strictly based on empiricism. For example, diets. The metabolism of the human body is pretty well known, and science has shown us what is good to eat and what is not. Now there are diets that say we should eat this and not eat that based on some philosophical bent. I think that applying spirituality to human practices is our nature, just as it's our nature to anthropromorphize animals or inanimate objects. Even Einstein, a deeply spiritual person, did this when trying to disprove quantum mechanics." Thanks p99shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 You've gotta do your own thing brother, and I respect you for that. GSSF, bullseye, and skeet are all shooting sports, and whereas I dig them for that, they simply do not scratch the deeper itch that I have. That being said, even though I have Taoist and Tibetian tats, your avatar rox hard The Dude abides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Got awareness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I screwed up and gave this some thought. If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I smell a thread closure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I kinda dig those Zen rock gardens ....with the wavy lines, pebbels and stuff Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I kinda dig those Zen rock gardens ....with the wavy lines, pebbels and stuff Jim Beats the heck out of mowing lawns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Huntington Museum has a cool zen rock garden, I think they filmed some scenes from hidden tiger, crouching dragon there, the cherry blossom trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I kinda dig those Zen rock gardens ....with the wavy lines, pebbels and stuff Jim Beats the heck out of mowing lawns! Whats a Lawn? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 A lawn is like that patch of green in front of Fort Manzano, but I have about 2 acres of it which has required mowing three times already this season because it grows about three inches a day this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I kinda dig those Zen rock gardens ....with the wavy lines, pebbels and stuff Jim Beats the heck out of mowing lawns! Whats a Lawn? Jim It's a pain in the ass. The grass is never greener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat355 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Zen? What caliber is this? Is it a wildcat? Is it similar to a .22 Hornet? Please enlighten the ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Now and zen this topic comes up......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay6 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 You've gotta do your own thing brother, and I respect you for that. GSSF, bullseye, and skeet are all shooting sports, and whereas I dig them for that, they simply do not scratch the deeper itch that I have. That being said, even though I have Taoist and Tibetian tats, your avatar rox hard The Dude abides It's a league game smokey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I don't hate Zen. I hope that's not a rebuttal. I don't understand it well enough to form such a strong opinion....From the little I DO understand, some facets of this school of thought are a lot more accessible to my Western mind, anyway, from various publications related to sports psychology, etc. I've always been a bit suspicious of picking and choosing (no one here, I'm sure) selective pieces of "Zen" to improve shooting, golf, etc. It's like hearing that celibacy really focuses the mind, so you want to become a Catholic priest to improve your match performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I don't hate Zen. I hope that's not a rebuttal.I don't understand it well enough to form such a strong opinion....From the little I DO understand, some facets of this school of thought are a lot more accessible to my Western mind, anyway, from various publications related to sports psychology, etc. I've always been a bit suspicious of picking and choosing (no one here, I'm sure) selective pieces of "Zen" to improve shooting, golf, etc. It's like hearing that celibacy really focuses the mind, so you want to become a Catholic priest to improve your match performance. There are two major schools here. Some believe zen can not be separated from Buddhism. To them it is Zen Buddhism and as such is like being a Baptist Christian or a Methodist Christian. Those of this belief would agree with Boo's analogy. The other school of thought, and the one which includes me, holds that zen comes to us as a technique from the Zen Buddhist. While I may acknowledge its history, I do not have to join the church to sing the hymn. Saint Ignatious of Loyola created a series of prayers, meditations, contemplations and exercises which are designed to help the Catholic better understand himself and his relationship to God. These exercises are almost always done by Jesuits or lay Catholics at at Jesuit retreat. One may undertake these exercises without being a Catholic, much less a Jesuit priest. The zen meditation technique is not faith based. It is an empirical activity with observable and measurable results. Maku Mozo! Don't be deluded! I'd rant on but it is time to go and feed the horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 In some ways Zen is like forgivness. Both are important aspects of their respective religions, but they are not the only tools in the shed nor are they exclusive to either belief. Both of these tools however, can be very effective in clearing the way for higher pursuits, whether you master them or just try to understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdstihl Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I've always felt that Zen was the state of mind that lets you be exactly in the moment, thereby allowing you to understand yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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