h4444 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 What would you do..... I recently shot a stage with lots of "gadgets" in it,,,,,,really long stage to shoot. In the middle was a particularly nasty Texas Star,,,,I swear the thing had a motor on it making the sucker spin faster...... Anyway,,,,it was eating a ton of time against all the shooters. I started to just pop 5 REALLY quick shots at it and if I got anything great,,,,but move on regardless, but accept the Mike's if I got any I wussed out,,,shot the stage "right".... But, I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that's done something like that before,,,,,,blown through a portion of a stage to save the time because you know you could make up the points elsewhere on a long stage. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 h4444, you can't miss fast enough to win. lynn jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 The only time I have gamed a stage not to engage targets is when they were disapearing tagets with no-penalty misses..the time had to be pretty significant to make it an advantage.. shooting five quick shots for your engagement and if you hit one and moved on ..you would still give up 60 points in penalties and misses..that would be pretty devastating to your hit factor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I think the trick is to keep it "balanced". It is going to move, there is no way around it, but you want to minimize the movement by trying to "reverse" the direction of the spin between plates. The order depends on the way the star is sitting at rest. Think about how the star will spin if you shoot a given plate order. Shoot the plate that will disturb the balance the least first. Pick the next plate so that the spin it's removal generates will be in the opposite direction. This should slow down the star. Repeat. Also don't forget to "follow through" on the moving plates ie. don't stop tracking the plate with your sights to make the shot. Misses never help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 h4444 if the stage was long say 150 points you would have to shoot the stage 8 seconds faster if you wanted to take misses on the star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 h4444if the stage was long say 150 points you would have to shoot the stage 8 seconds faster if you wanted to take misses on the star. L2S, I know I'm drifting the thread, but I would really like to learn how you arrived with 8 seconds. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted June 5, 2003 Author Share Posted June 5, 2003 I guess what I'm really after is have you folks ever don't something like that.... The problem with this stage was there were so many gimmicks that it really was a high point/slow stage to shoot the the biggest hangup seemed to be the star. The stage was fun, but probably overkill on the "gadgets". Just curious if those are things you've ever considered at the club level. We shot a star the week before at my own club that if you shot smooth and didn't miss, the thing hardly moved......Easy enough, top plate left upper plate,,,,then pick off the bottom,,,,hardly any movement. I agree with the old addage,,,,,can't miss fast enough to win,,,,but if there was opportunity based on your strengths as a shooter to cut out a huge amount of time in exchange for the penalty in hopes of driving up your hit factor, would you do it??? Just curious as to opinions,,,,,I find myself thinking more and more about the best ways to approach stages, particularly when I run across these high point/slow stages. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 h4444, You are just using the star as an example, right? What you really want to know is if it's cool to game a stage (by skipping targets...or whatever) to get a highier hit factor, correct? If you are out to win..then getting the highest hit factor is the way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Each star is a little different. The Ashtons told me that at last year's Carter Martin Classic in San Angelo. Their stage had two regular, five-pointed stars and a hammer (two-pointed star). The regular ones were activated by a popper and were set right next to each other. I went 10 for 10 on the big stars. Terry said the key is to shoot the plates on the upswing because there is less tendency for the star to "run" that way. It seems ironic, that even though I live where the star originated, I don't shoot it in local matches much, only twice, I think. The stars are a blast to shoot when they go well and a complete pain in the rear when they don't. I managed to screw them up at A4 last year and the Texas State 3-Gun this year. I got over it. The star is easier than Dan Warren's Texas Windmill from the first 4-H Charity Match in Coleman. That thing was a doozie. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted June 5, 2003 Author Share Posted June 5, 2003 Yeah,,,star is just an example..... I was mostly curious if others had skipped things before in stages.... Just curious really..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Mcoliver, I got 8 seconds by doing math estimates (but I forgot to add the lost points). 150 points is a fairly long stage. Say 20 seconds. 150 pts / 20 sec = HF 7.25 So, 5 misses on the star gives you -75 (50 for the misses and -25 for the lost points) so you start out with 75 points possible 75 pts / 10 sec = HF 7.5 So on a 20 second stage in would be more like 10 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Yeah,,,star is just an example.....I was mostly curious if others had skipped things before in stages.... Just curious really..... Yep...skip away. The idea is to get the highest hit factor for the stage. Good stage design will make it so that, to win the stage, the points will be worth the time. As a shooter, we are faced with a problem, we solve it in the way that will give us the most points per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Mcoliver,I got 8 seconds by doing math estimates (but I forgot to add the lost points). 150 points is a fairly long stage. Say 20 seconds. 150 pts / 20 sec = HF 7.25 So, 5 misses on the star gives you -75 (50 for the misses and -25 for the lost points) so you start out with 75 points possible 75 pts / 10 sec = HF 7.5 So on a 20 second stage in would be more like 10 seconds. Thanks L2S. I'm now slowly trying to incorporate the math in my shooting even though my head hurts when I do it. I wonder if it would be weird to bring a calculator in a match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 McColiver, A calculator is a good thing to bring, along with a stopwatch, many of the top shooters use them regularly. It is good to calculate your HF for the stage so that you make sure the stats people got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the duck of death Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 What's a Texas Star, I've never seen one? Any links were our club could get one? Sounds interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 Duck, The Texas star is a five pointed star mounted on basically on an axle. It has plates on each arm that will come off when shot. By knocking the plates off, it puts the stars weight distribution out of balance thus making the plates spin......some of them can be down right evil. Don't know where you get them,,,,,I just know I need to shoot them better. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillster Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Hey Duck, A Texas Star is a hub with five arms, each arm holds a steel plate which can be knocked off when shot. When a plate comes off the star becomes unbalanced and rotates on the hub. You can get one for $400.00 which includes extra parts form Terry Ashton tel #915-655-2809. There is a video and a couple of pictures under the competition section of KRTraining.com, just scroll down about half way. There is also a doc file with ordering information for the star. I've shot one several times in steel matches and it's a fun target. Hope this helps. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillster Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Not sure if I'm doing this right so if it's blank, sorry, but this MIGHT be a picture of the star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillster Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Well, since the picture seems to have worked, I'll try this link to the ordering info in case anyone is interested, and sorry H4444, I must have missed your post when I put in my $.02, didn't mean to repeat what you had written. Chris Texas Star Ordering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the duck of death Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Thanks for the info the TS looks like it could be, umm,--- INTERESTING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratochief Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 The key to shooting the star is to hit the plate which is the highest, thus preventing it from spinning. If you shoot the lowest plate, it will be top heavy and start spinning like crazy. I don't buy into skipping targets simply to win, what honor is there in winning a stage which you basically cheated to win? That's not shooting, that's just poor sportsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 If you pay the penalty in points,,,,I don't see it as cheating,,,,you're losing points and playing by the rules. I guess it just depends on what you want to get out of competitive shooting....... Edited content below - added this stuff....... Well designed stages prevent these things from happening to begin with, I don't see it so much as illegal or wrong, but taking advantage or what is given to you. Like I said earlier in the thread, the stage in question was highly "gadgetized", high point total and low hit factor. If ever a stage cried out "game me", it was that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 BS mode on)) The reason most guys wouldn't leave the plates, IMHO is testosterone. I mean, a manly-man wouldn't/couldn't just let those targets stay without shooting them could he??? Besides at the club I shoot in, the ladies always clean the star (and do it well, I might add) and it just wouldn't seem right to bypass it!!!!(BS mode off!!) just my manly $.02 worth Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 h4444, I think you pretty much answered your question. With even a moderately well designed stage it won't be benificial to skip targets unless they are DT's. Or if it is a less skilled shooter that is going to take all their ammo to clear a star. Also remember, it doesn't really matter how many points are in a stage, it matters what the HF will be for you. The lower the hit factor the more important your points become. As has been said, you can't miss fast enough to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Oops, I forgot to add the reason I was replying to this thread. I shot a match this weekend at a range I don't normally shoot at, I guess due to some range restrictions and a new club pres., they had some really difficult stages. I think the highest HF for the match was 5 or 6 with most being around 2 or 3. It was by far the most challenging match I have shot. Tons of hard cover, wierd shooting positions, no-shoots, distance, alot of ports with only one target to shoot. Just a tough, choppy match. We had many shooters zero a couple stages. (a good sign of to many penalties available IMO) Anyway the point is, a few shooters tried to skip some of the stage requirements, either to save time or because of frustration at the match. (One stage, only 5 of 30 shooters shot it clean) They either skipped low ports or skipped targets, but the HF's were so low that there was no way it would factor out in their favor. I think it would be a rare stage where it would work out. (Or a poorly designed stage) But if you can beat the stage designer .....Game On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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