45 GAP moonclips

[Daniele]

I am trying to get in touch with Dave Hearth to buy some of his moonclips, after 2 weeks, no reply.

Is he still in business?

Any other makes FMC for 45 GAP in S&W 625?

Any chance to modify 610 FMC to accept 45 GAP ( as GAP is loose in ACP FMC)?

[cliffwalsh]

I am trying to get in touch with Dave Hearth to buy some of his moonclips, after 2 weeks, no reply.

Is he still in business?

Any other makes FMC for 45 GAP in S&W 625?

Any chance to modify 610 FMC to accept 45 GAP ( as GAP is loose in ACP FMC)?

Did you try this: dhearth@hotmail.com

I am pretty sure he is still around.

I will be at the EEO in June, I can bring with me if you want.

Cliff

Edited April 13, 2008 by cliffwalsh

[hearthco]

I am trying to get in touch with Dave Hearth to buy some of his moonclips, after 2 weeks, no reply.

Is he still in business?

Any other makes FMC for 45 GAP in S&W 625?

Any chance to modify 610 FMC to accept 45 GAP ( as GAP is loose in ACP FMC)?

SORRY!!!!! Here I am. emails sent. Dave

[Patrick Sweeney]

Special moonclips for .45 GAP? I just use the normal ones. What am I missing?

[Gregg K]

Special moonclips for .45 GAP? I just use the normal ones. What am I missing?

I tried some GAP cartridges in my Ranch moon clips and they were real sloppy. Maybe your brass is tighter?

[Daniele]

I tried some GAP cartridges in my Ranch moon clips and they were real sloppy. Maybe your brass is tighter?

Me too: some case easily dropped off the FMC!

[Patrick Sweeney]

I went through the 2007 Nationals without losing a round off a moonclip. I lot a clip or two in the mud, but the ones I got had rounds still on them.

I wonder why mine are different? They're really old, could that be it?

[cliffwalsh]

Could be the brand of brass. I use starline and they will stay in a ACP clip very well.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Mine were Corbon.

[HighVelocity]

I had a chance to shoot some 45GAP ammo today in a 625 and while the cases weren't as tight as 45acp in the same moonclips, they were tight enough. I was throwing the loaded moonclips from a pretty good distance and they were going right in the cylinder with no problems.

Gary

[hearthco]

Special moonclips for .45 GAP? I just use the normal ones. What am I missing?

I cut a solid clip just for the Starline 45 gap brass.

There is enough variation between the 3 headstamps I checked, that an all-purpose clip could not satisfy all. Dave

[pskys2]

Now you guys have me interested.

What GAP loads are you using for:

1) Major PF

2) Minor PF

Would be nice to have Revo (IPSC/ICORE), Limited, Limited 10 & Production all use the same primer. I think I'd draw the line at SS though, I wouldn't want to spread the GAP brass amongst my "usual" .45 stuff.

Edited April 17, 2008 by pskys2

[UW Mitch]

This is super interesting! I never even considered using GAP brass to load for my 625! Even though it's easy to switch the primer system on my SDB, using GAP brass would mean I could use small primers which I'm already set up for, and the short case should be even faster to reload! SWEET!

~Mitch

[Carmoney]

OK, now for the real question: Does shooting GAP brass in a 625 really accomplish anything? I guess I was under the impression that this phase had kind of run its course and most of the guys who were shooting GAP or cut-down brass had given up on it and moved back to regular ACP brass--am I wrong?

I never experimented with it myself--hell, I still use my old pile of mixed ACP brass along with my old pile of mixed moonclips.

Has anybody ever done any serious testing to see if GAP brass truly cuts reload times?

And is there any other advantage to using GAP brass?

[Daniele]

GAP brass truly cuts reload times? Not enough to put me in GrandMaster class!

is there any other advantage to using GAP brass? Small primer allows a lighter trigger pull.

On the other hand: cases are scarce and expensive, press must be adjusted for GAP ( doesn't work also for HP or ACP), FMC are ,again, scarce and expensive.

BUT as I want to find a better combination than my double beloved 646 in 40, I am going to feed my 625 with the best recipe, used by top Italian IPSC shooters.

[pskys2]

Since you don't lose brass from a Revo much and as I get less time to fiddle with reloading....

It might just be worth the cost to save a bit of time at the press, but then again it might not.

I doubt if there's any "Tricks" that will help me place better, except the old tried and true one ... Practice!!!

So give it up guys, what's your favorite loads. PM me if you don't want to air it out in the open. I'm a big boy and won't hold you to it if'n I somehow screw up your recipe. Heck I might not even talk bad about it.

[Carmoney]

Small primer allows a lighter trigger pull.

I'm curious about the notion that small primers take less mainspring tension to pop. I think I remember Randy saying it here in the past, and he would certainly know. But my own experience is that if the primers are properly seated (slightly crush-fit to below flush), and all other things are essentially equal, I can't tell much difference--if any--between small and large primers in terms of ignition reliability at lower DA pull weights.

Anybody else have a view on this?

[David Sinko]

If you already have a 5.5 lb. DA trigger pull on your revolver, why would you want to go even less? My trigger is in the realm of 8+ lbs., fires all primers and I'm as happy as can be. I'm even happier because I didn't have to pay anybody to get it.

Faster reloads? Again, just how much is to be gained here? Is it worth it in the end?

I have a very small quantity of Speer GAP brass that is very loose in my ACP moonclips. It's loose enough that the laoded rounds can fall out before they make it into the cylinder. I loaded up some of the brass to see if my 625 would fire them WITHOUT moonclips (it did), but I can not think of any reason I'd want to load this cartridge on a regular basis.

Dave Sinko

[Gregg K]

I have a very small quantity of Speer GAP brass that is very loose in my ACP moonclips. It's loose enough that the laoded rounds can fall out before they make it into the cylinder. Dave Sinko

It was Speer brass that I tried as well. I had the same results with cartridges flying off the moons. I thought about what could be gained by going through all the trouble of using the GAP in place of the ACP and decided that I like life much more simple. I like cheap moon clips with mixed brass and getting great results. I figured that there is a lot more to be gained by just plain old practice.

[Carmoney]

Faster reloads? Again, just how much is to be gained here? Is it worth it in the end?

Well, IF it actually speeds up reloads, it would be worth it. We reload often enough that any incremental speed increase would be worthwhile.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Carmoney

[Daniele]

Well, IF it actually speeds up reloads, it would be worth it. We reload often enough that any incremental speed increase would be worthwhile.

38 Short Colt is way faster ( can we say 50%?) to reload than 357Mag or 38 Spl because it is a lot shorter.

I think, for the same reason, 45 GAP is faster than ACP or HP; surely the improvement will not be the same, maybe only 10%?

But in actual IPSC COF reloading time is the most important factor.

[cooper_999]

38 Short Colt is way faster ( can we say 50%?) to reload than 357Mag or 38 Spl because it is a lot shorter.

Time for me, to jump in

I can only speak for the 38Short Colts - sold my 625 last year after lying unused in the safe for years. Never tried 45GAPS. seriously.

My experience is, that with .38 ShortColts my reloads are lots more consistent. With the 38SPL (shortened or not), there are usually sometimes hanging reloads between right flushing ones (This rate is even higher the more complex or shorter the moving is between shooting positions). The rate of hanging reloads is much more lower with the shorties. Reloading times? Never measured. But there is a felt difference. If its measurable or not, who cares. This felt difference makes me more self confident to throw in a additional reload to get a quicker way in a stage. I'll vote for the shorties.

DVC,

Sascha

Edit: and yes, I'm also using special clips for my Starline .38SC cases

Edited April 19, 2008 by cooper_999

[Greg Q]

I did several tests before using the Gap brass. I reload with Clays and in my revolver it takes 4.0 gr. with a 230 FMJ to make 168PF in an ACP case. I use 3.3gr of Clays with the same bullet to make 168PF in GAP brass. I think Cliff uses Clays also with a 200gr bullet in GAP brass. I did notice enough of a difference in recoil to go to the Gap brass. The clips from HearthCo. are fantastic. They hold the brass super rigid. Loads faster than my ACP brass and clips. The Speer GAP brass are slightly smaller and a little sloppy in ACP clips. Winchester, Starline and Federal seem to hold better in ACP clips.

[David Sinko]

But this is USPSA where you're allowed to do running reloads, at least most of the time. And isn't there a narrower margin of error when handling shorter cartridges? They will require greater "touch," which increases the possibility that you will drop them. Yeah, I'm splitting hairs, but isn't that what you're doing by suggesting this in the first place?

Is it really good that the rounds be held rigid in the moonclip? Winchester brass was a rigid fit in the moonclips of my 8 shot Super and the result was disastrous.

I have not yet encountered a single type of headstamp of .45 ACP brass that will not function properly in ANY moonclip in any of my 625s. No other handgun invented by man offers this kind of convenience and reliability. Do you really want to compromise all that just because you MIGHT save a tenth or so on a standing reload?

Dave Sinko

[whizz]

I have made special FMCs for my 29-3 which I use with .44 Russian Cases from Starline. The specially made FMCs holds the cases firmly without or with very little "play". The reloads are much faster and the "hanging" of cases has so far been almost totally eliminated. Will go back to my 29-3 for competition this year as it has always been much more accurate than my .45 ACPs. The reloads with the new FMCs are as smooth as they are with the .45 ACP. That was not the case when using "floppy" clips. The extra inch of barrel is also nice.

Edited April 19, 2008 by whizz