nice_bel_guy Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 why in eur i see a lot of schooters put there indexfinger of there support hand on the trigger guard , and not in the states ??? why is this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Because Brian Enos said not to. In addition to that, it feels more natural and is more consistant. I found that the finger forward thing did not work well for me, YMMV. If possible, read Brian's book. I'm not sure it's available in your neck of the woods, and it might be a little difficult read if english is not your primary language, but it's got alot of good info. Or maybe he'll just tell you himself. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Jerry "The Burner" Barnhart covers this in his video tapes. It's worth checking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 some shooters still do it. there is more than one way to skin a cat. There is no singular way to do it. Experiment and find what is best for you. Good shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 By eur, do ypu mean Europe? Is it probably because Eric Grauffel is in your neck of the woods and you see him more often than you see US shooters?.....Eric's in Europe, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Basically, I feel I have a stronger overall grip by incorporating the index finger INTO the grip, instead of having it up on the trigger guard. I also feel this is more important on a stock-type pistol simply because they recoil more than your modern day Open gun. Also, you increase the potential to "steer" the gun (to the left or right, up or down) if your entire grip is not perfectly neutral by placing your index finger forward of the rest of your grip, on the front of the trigger guard. Under the increased "non-neutrality" typically induced by stress, this is not a good thing. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 BE: is it possible that the CZ's and the Tanfoglio's pistol designs were meant for the support hand index finger to be wrapped around the trigger guard for recoil control unlike in a 1911? That seems to be the preferred grip technique of Angus and Eric G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I can't speak for other shooters that DO put their finger on the trigger guard. But, I can explain why I don't. I experimented for a short while with this and quickly returned to my all fingers under the trigger guard grip. For me the disadvantages are: -Not all trigger guards are adequate, in a 1911 with its short trigger guard I end up wrapping my entire finger around and it becomes an obstacle/nuisance for my trigger finger. -It becomes harder to apply strength without tension with the weak hand. -It creates an unwanted tension on the tendons in the back of my hand. -I always end up applying strength with that index finger on the trigger guard and steer the pistol. This translates into poorly called shots or an inconsistant sight movement in recoil. -I don't feel that I'm applying enough force with my middle, ring and pinky finger, so I alway subconsciously try to compensate applying more force than I should, inducing tension. -My support hand gets in an awkward angle. -It just doesn't feel right or comfortable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I don't do it for the exact reasons Pierruiggi wrote down. I find it really hard to get a good grip with my weak hand when I have my finger on the TG. It's almost as if I'm using my index finger to pull the rest of my support hand off the grip. I DO think this technique works better with a thumbrest installed, so you can pinch your weak hand thumb and index finger together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Back in the early 90's it was a semi acceptable way to do things. I always had a problem, when I shot with my finger on the tg I had a serious issue with mikes. Obviously it was not neutral for me and I was pulling the gun with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 i agree that in a 1911 the index finger on the trigger guard can and will induce muzzle steer. i'm wondering if the CZ's and Tanfoglio/EAA Witness and other similar pistol designs were meant to be gripped with the support hand index finger on the trigger guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I never tried to analyze it very much. For me, it's just uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Tha hand-painting on the wall I can understand. But the image below it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 that's where your "mag pouch" is supposed to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I used to have my WH finger on the TG of my Para. Then after reading around here and TGO's site I tried the all-fingers-on -grip thing. Felt real weird for a while, but decided I can only judge once mastered...and....for me it works allot better than finger and TG. I'm glad I switched.... How much better I can not tell since my score are steadily improving since hanging around here and making dumb comments.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardw Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Ok, I'm a big proponent of what Brian has to say on this subject. Not only from reading his book, but from my rock climbing experience. Your grip is just stronger when all your fingers are mated together. This is Rock Climbing 101 information... But! In looking at the photos of Graffuel (sp?) I am reminded of somthing that's been bothering me lately. Has anyone ever looked at Sevigny's grip on the Glock? The index finger of his weak hand creeps pretty far forward of the underside of the trigger guard. Sometimes I "blow" my grip and get into this postion and it doesn't feel bad or perform badly at all. Seems to cock the wrist more and possible raise the main point of contact of the palm onto the gun. Suggestions? Comments? Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Has anyone ever looked at Sevigny's grip on the Glock? The index finger of his weak hand creeps pretty far forward of the underside of the trigger guard. Sometimes I "blow" my grip and get into this postion and it doesn't feel bad or perform badly at all. Seems to cock the wrist more and possible raise the main point of contact of the palm onto the gun. Could this be due to grip angle diffs between the 1911/Glock/CZ & clones????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardw Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I haven't a clue... Sevigny grip pics... http://www.sevignyperformance.com/page4.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 There are very few "must do's" in this sport...almost everyone tweaks the stance and grip to find what is best and most comfortable for them....this is one of those things..Suggest you try it both ways and see what works for you...just because the Big Dawgs do something, doesn't make it right for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardw Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Tightloop, Well sure. I guess I just need to experiment with it. Just wondering if anyone else had noticed this "peculiarity" with Sevigny's grip. I've, finally, reached a point where I realize there is no magic technique that will give me a meteoric rise in performance. Just old fashioned hard work and the properly executed repetition of the fundamentals... My only problem with the "Sevigny grip" is that it seems to mash the palm of my strong hand into the slide stop... Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 My grip mashes the fleshy part of my WH thumb (at the base) against the thumb safety. It hurt at first, but then I developed a callous there. Don't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 I used to have my WH finger on the TG of my Para. Then after reading around here and TGO's site I tried the all-fingers-on -grip thing. Felt real weird for a while, but decided I can only judge once mastered. In that regard, you made a mental leap of which most people aren't capable: the understanding that the way you've been doing something for years will always feel more natural than a technique that's new to you, and that how "natural" a particular technique feels is actually a very poor indicator of how well it works. What most people do when they evaluate a new technique is they fire a few shots using it, shudder and go, "That feels really unnatural," then go right back to shooting however they were doing it before. I had this experience when I decided to switch from a thumb-over-thumb grip to straight thumbs. For years I'd "evaluated" the straight thumbs grip by firing a few shots using it, shuddering and going, "That feels really unnatural," then going back to thumb-over-thumb. Finally I stepped up to the plate and decided that if I was ever going to give the new technique a fair shake I was going to have to make a commitment to doing it that way for an extended period of time. So I said to myself, "Okay, I'm going to shoot straight thumbs for the next year. I'm just gonna do that." And for awhile it feel really weird. And after awhile it just felt natural, and worked so much better than the previous technique I knew it was the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Ah, but did it work better, or did the practice to make it work, make you shoot better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 It's probably more of opening yourself up to new inputs. Thereby understanding the problem even more and the solution just presented itself. In the end, better shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 My 2 cents says that: 1st cent: what ever is comfortable & brings results. 2nd cent: when NOT hugging the trigger guard but stretching forward as possible specially with the thumb, the thumb tendon "locks" the wrist and prevents some of the up ~ down movements. just like shown at: www.sevignyperformance.com (thanks howardw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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