Rufus The Bum Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I have a 625 that is the new style with the "key lock" To me it makes no difference whether it has one or not because it makes no difference in the performance of the gun, but I have gotten more stupid comments about how they will never own one with a safety lock and basically tell me I'm an idiot for buying one (I beat half of these guys with it (I'm the only revolver guy at our club) And I can see it just makes them madder than Dicks hatband. Has anyone else noticed this sort of resentment towards the new S&W revolvers? Word of advice, if you can't beat the guy your badmouthing, then you need not badmouth? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I think the problem most folks have with S&W stems from the wishy washy attitude toward government intervention into the manufacturing capabilities of firearms companies. They have folded like a cheap suit several times when it would have been in the best interests of the company and their imbedded base of users to at least put up token resistance. I have to plead guilty myself, and will personally spurn any Remington 700 with the lock on the bolt shroud, any Series '80 or newer Colt 1911 with the hammer block, and if I shot revolvers; probably would feel the same about the lock mechanism of the S&W products. I know, I know; it is just that I am tired of being treated like I am 2 years old and don't have the common sense required to use the machine without hurting myself or others, so to protect me from me, they installed a lock, or in the case of Colt Series '80, a FIFTH safety feature. Same way I feel about the really STUPID seat belt laws...but that rant is better saved for some Friday down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I think Tightloop said it best. They are just trying to protect me from me! It's amazing I have tools from my Dad that work perfect without any "safeties", but if I were to buy a new one I'd have to disable at least one safety, because they don't put it in a comfortable spot to use. It's just like anything, you have to use the "safety" between your ears! I'm a big boy now, so quit messing with John Brownings great designs, and quit drilling holes in my S&W revolver frames. They muck up the astetics and trigger pull I have come to enjoy! I also think the companies do this crap because some parents are not responsible, and do not teach their kids gun safety. In this letigious society we live in today even the manufacturers have to cover their butt. Too bad when a child gets injured at home due to careless gun safety we can't sue for bad parenting. We all know if my car crashes into a tree and I'm seriously injured it must be the cars fault! What logic! Ok I'll stop my rant, but please I don't need to be protected from myself! Ray C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I always wonder why they still sell whole candy bars. I mean, you can choke on those. They're dangerous. They should liquify them, just to make sure that one idiot a year doesn't get himself killed. Guns with internal locks don't suck. Companies that decide you're potentially irresponsible and act accordingly, do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I told myself I wouldn't ever own a Smith unless the firing pin was on the hammer. Well, I bought a 610 anyway and when I got it home I took the side plate off to do the typical mods on the trigger return spring, polish the block and so on. Man was I ever disappointed. In comparison to the old Smiths, the internals are junk. If I buy a .45 Smith it will be an old 25-2...progress my butt. As for badmouthing a shooter because of his choices, that's nonsense. Heck, I shoot a newer generation Smith, I just prefer the old ones. I also hate the firing pin block on the new Kimbers, but I pack a new CDP Pro Carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 As for badmouthing a shooter because of his choices, that's nonsense. Heck, I shoot a newer generation Smith BAN HIM, BAN HIM!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Word of advice, if you can't beat the guy your badmouthing, then you need not badmouth? Right? Right! However, the mods that Ron made to his 610, I made to a 686 and was similarly disappointed. You guys should petition John Howard for access to all the old large calibre Smiths that he is going to confiscate and CRUSH. Most of them will be the older style and sweetly tuned, like my 2 Model 29C's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 ...but I have gotten more stupid comments about how they will never own one with a safety lock and basically tell me I'm an idiot for buying one .... Here is wisdom: there will always be stupid comments since there will always be stupid people. They are just trying to flog the old dead "boycott" horse that won't run any more. Let the target do the talking. I bought a new model 66 about 2 months ago. I shot 598/600 tonight at PPC and it would have been a perfect score except for one bad round that cartwheeled into the "8" ring (but I'm not bitter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Hell, I ain't stoopid, but I know you would have had a perfect score if you ain't had one of them new guns..... ...but I have gotten more stupid comments about how they will never own one with a safety lock and basically tell me I'm an idiot for buying one .... You're an idiot if you let your own political "ideals" get in you own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 Absolutely. I could care less about a companies (or persons) political polices, as long as they make a great product, I'll buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Absolutely. I could care less about a companies (or persons) political polices, as long as they make a great product, I'll buy. That is too bad. I think there was definitely a time when boycotting S&W made sense. Now that they have new ownership I think that time may be over. Sometimes, as a consumer, you have to take a stand. Consumers boycotted Columbia River products after a bigwig made anti-gun statements. The bigwig got fired and the company apologized. Dollars speak louder than words. That being said I have a newer 625 (frame mounted firing pin) and an older 586 (hammer mounted fp) and the 586 IS a MUCH nicer gun. The comparison in trigger pulls is vividly obvious to all who have tried them both. I haven't noticed the lock on the 625 doing anything other than uglying up my gun. Maybe I could JB weld the lock open and use the key as a thumb rest! -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 jhgtyre, I understand what you mean, but keep in mind that the only reason S&W changed their policy (both times) was/is because of money. They're just as moral or immoral as they were before. They just realized they went a step too far and that it would cost them big time. BTW, the new MIM guns are horrible out of the box, but you can really fix that ugly trigger. I've tried some new tuned S&W revolvers and they're sweet. Good idea about that thumbrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDAVIS1 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Rufus, Thanx for your help with reloading the ACP round. Those locks are awful, but what can you do about it. I don't think you should stand for anybody badmouthing your gun though, that is pretty obnoxious. Just tell them you only use it as a high speed index point for your thumb...give them something to think about. I've been considering a 625 for a while, but I think I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 Glad I could help. You know it really annoys me when I spend all this money to shoot a class (revolver) which is an almost extinct class in USPSA, and all I get it people badmouthing my gun because they have a hangup about something S&W did years ago. It's no wonder why there are very few revolver guys. BUT IT IS FUN to beat those Limited guys with a Six Shooter..........Rufus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 my new 686+ has the lock on the frame. didn't know what it was. will never use it. end of discussion! SharonAnne L2387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Rufus Didn't know you were a revo hot rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 I suspect that a lot of the "badmouthing" comes from the serious Second Amendment supporters who refuse to allow anything to come between themselves and their principles. S&W caved in to the Klinton White House and secretly met (along with Glock, which is another story) with White House slime..err...lawyers...to "put together" a industry-wide deal that would cripple the Second Amendment beyond the possibility of repair. Glock backed out after the serious firearms community went (ahem) ballistic over S&W's betrayal, immediately after it was announced by the Klintonistas. That is where the S&W boycott started. S&W's profit margin went so far down that Saf-T-Hammer (an American company, S&W being owned by a British company at the time) managed to scrape together a pitance and buy S&W outright. The agreement....which has NEVER been repudiated, went with it. The "new" S&W says that the agreement is moot because it isn't being enforced. Well, news flash, it isn't being enforced by John Ashcroft. When the next Janet Reno takes over, it will be... Since S&W refuses to scrap the agreement, it is still legally binding. As long as it is legally binding, then S&W must die. Just that simple. But, that view is for serious supporters of the Second Amendment who put principle over shiny new toys. And...this is getting WAY too political for the BEforum, lets move over to www.thehighroad.org if anyone wants to try and refute cold facts. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 What Wakal said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Actually, politics doesn't have a thing to do with my preference for the old Smiths. The older revolvers are just plain better and that my friends is a cold hard fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullet Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 The worst feature of S&W revolvers of the present era is the barrels,they are not as good as the cut rifled barrels , particularly with lead bullets.The double action pull can be made just about as good and the surface hardness of the MIM trigger ensures that it will stay that way.The extractor system is far more robust than the previous design with its dinky little alignment pins. The new stainless steel also seems to be much more resistant to corrosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I have a 625 that is the new style with the "key lock" To me it makes no difference whether it has one or not because it makes no difference in the performance of the gun, but I have gotten more stupid comments about how they will never own one with a safety lock and basically tell me I'm an idiot for buying one ..... Well, stupid comments generally start from stupid sources. I agree the lock is harmless, my pet peeves are the ugly MIM hammers and triggers and the stupid frame mounted firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveHarris Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I guess the S&W ‘urban legends’ are alive and well I have a ‘new’ 610 that Frank Glenn tuned up for me and I’ve since taken it all apart to clean and re-lube. I’ve owned many guns for many years including some very high grade guns. Although I never opened it before Frank ‘had his way with it’ I found everything to be very well made and it’s has a very smooth action, wonderful trigger and the accuracy is fully equal to or better than any other revolver I or my revolver shooting friends have tried. I’ve never used the key nor do I intend to. BTW with the floating firing pin and block you’d never have an AD caused by dropping the rev All the remains is a nice set of accessories to plug into the key hole Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Steve Harris It isn't about the locking device, it is about selling out to the Clinton mandate to get in line or else. For me it is also about loosing your personal freedoms. They don't think we have enough sense to NOT shoot ourselves if it doesn't have a lock, just like the damn seatbelt law. Since I am way over 21, it I have a wreck and want to rattle around inside my auto during the wreck, should be my right to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Steve: I had an interesting conversation with Frank Glenn before he worked on my 610. Basically, we reminisced about the good old days back when revolvers ruled. I mentioned to Frank what I had done to my action as far as tune up and we talked about the differences between the internals on new guns versus the old guns. I won’t quote Frank, but he expressed a personal preference based on the quality of the parts, overall craftsmanship, and the ease of slicking things up. Ask any top notch revolver smith which they would rather work over, an old 25-2 or your new 610. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Steve HarrisSince I am way over 21, it I have a wreck and want to rattle around inside my auto during the wreck, should be my right to do so... I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact your brain dead body will consume about $500,000 worth of taxpayer funded care at the county hospital before your heartbeat stops and you officially become a "donor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts