Schuemann barrel?

[twister]

Has anyone tried using one of these barrels? I'm wanting to get a new barrel put in my Kimber, and wondered if this one is worth the extra money? Any help is appreciated, Thanks, Dave

[38superman]

Is it worth it?

In my opinion, yes.

My limited gun came with a Schuemann Ultimatch and it is absolutely awesome.

I own a Para that was shooting groups like a shotgun pattern from the factory.

5 shot strings off a sandbag at 25 yards were in the 5-6" range.

Unacceptable by anyone's standards.

I had a Schuemann Classic barrel and bushing put in it and it went down to 1-2" groups.

My Springfield was shooting 4" groups out of the box and became the most accurate gun I own after the installation of a Kart barrel and bushing.

Most production guns will benefit from the installation of a high quality, handfitted match grade barrel and bushing.

The question is what is the level of performance you are getting from your Kimber and what are you looking for.

If you are already getting 2" groups it may not be worth several hundred dollars to shrink that down to 1"-1 1/2" for the type of shooting we do.

If the gun is unreliable or grossly inaccurate, it's a no-brainer.

Fit the new barrel and live happily ever after.

It's your gun and your money.

Choose wisely.

T

Edited March 19, 2008 by 38superman

[G-ManBart]

I think so. I've been told by three top-level gunsmiths that they prefer to use Schuemann's for a couple of reasons. One is that they all told me they require less time to fit than some of the other top barrels. Two is that they like the feed ramp profile that comes with the AET barrels. Three, with good bullets they tend to be incredibly accurate (they don't like plated bullets for the most part). That isn't to take anything away from Bar-Sto, KKM, KART, Wilson, Clark etc....they're all good barrels. Right now I have a KKM in my Open gun and a Bar-Sto in my old Open gun. I'm having a Schuemann put in my single stack when I get around to sending it to my smith and he'll be putting one in the new open gun we're cooking up as well. I did a poll on the best barrel manufacturer not long ago and Schuemann won by a pretty large margin. R,

Edit to add link:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...2&hl=barrel

Edited March 18, 2008 by G-ManBart

[kgunz11]

How would you compare the feed ramp from an STI factory barrel to a Schuemann? In order to run the correct recoil spring for my gun I need to go lighter, but if I go any lighter the bullets have a hard time going up the feed ramp.

[rvbgtr]

Email Mike Calloway: mike@schuemann.com, he's a good guy and I'm sure he'll give you a straight answer.

[Merlin Orr]

How would you compare the feed ramp from an STI factory barrel to a Schuemann? In order to run the correct recoil spring for my gun I need to go lighter, but if I go any lighter the bullets have a hard time going up the feed ramp.

Schuemann is a Wonderful barrel! But... There is not one damned thing wrong with an STI barrel and if you are have trouble with the feed ramp and bullets going up the ramp your gun needs some attention from a Gunsmith.... Not a new barrel.

IMHO.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Does your Kimber need a new barrel? I found with the 2 Kimbers I had they had poorly fitted barrel bushings. The Grand Raptor would shoot 5" groups at 25 yards. After the new bushing 1". The Schuemann barrel is the easiest to fit by far. They don't have too much meat on them. The one with the most meat on them is the Bar Sto barrels. I would try a new barrel bushing first and hand fit it. You may be amazed ;-) Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[G-ManBart]

How would you compare the feed ramp from an STI factory barrel to a Schuemann? In order to run the correct recoil spring for my gun I need to go lighter, but if I go any lighter the bullets have a hard time going up the feed ramp.

What model STI?

It's usually not a problem with the 2011 series, but the single stacks can be another issue. For whatever reason, the ramp on the STI barrels is a bit farther forward than is ideal. My Edge has a stock STI barrel in it, feeds anything you throw at it and will shoot 1.25" groups at 25yds with decent ammo (probably better from a really good rest).

My Trojan has a stock STI barrel in it and it's picky about what it will feed from slide lock, but not when cycling during firing....weird, but true. It's never, ever failed to feed while shooting. My smith worked it over a little bit, and it's almost 100% from slide lock now, but to make it perfect he would have had to weld it up and recut it so that it's farther back. I told him not to bother as I have a Schuemann AET for it.

The AET series has a ramp profile that is curved slightly to aid feeding and my smith told me that he's never had to do anything to the ramp on one...fit it and forget it.

As suggested above, don't hesitate to contact Mike Calloway....really great guy to deal with. We shot Area-2 together and spent a lot of time talking about barrels and what the future looks like for them. They've got some really cool prototypes in the works now...can't wait to see them! R,

[kgunz11]

How would you compare the feed ramp from an STI factory barrel to a Schuemann? In order to run the correct recoil spring for my gun I need to go lighter, but if I go any lighter the bullets have a hard time going up the feed ramp.

What model STI?

It's usually not a problem with the 2011 series, but the single stacks can be another issue. For whatever reason, the ramp on the STI barrels is a bit farther forward than is ideal. My Edge has a stock STI barrel in it, feeds anything you throw at it and will shoot 1.25" groups at 25yds with decent ammo (probably better from a really good rest).

My Trojan has a stock STI barrel in it and it's picky about what it will feed from slide lock, but not when cycling during firing....weird, but true. It's never, ever failed to feed while shooting. My smith worked it over a little bit, and it's almost 100% from slide lock now, but to make it perfect he would have had to weld it up and recut it so that it's farther back. I told him not to bother as I have a Schuemann AET for it.

The AET series has a ramp profile that is curved slightly to aid feeding and my smith told me that he's never had to do anything to the ramp on one...fit it and forget it.

As suggested above, don't hesitate to contact Mike Calloway....really great guy to deal with. We shot Area-2 together and spent a lot of time talking about barrels and what the future looks like for them. They've got some really cool prototypes in the works now...can't wait to see them! R,

GMB and Merlin,

It's on the 2011 frame, the Tactical 5.0. I have suspicion the failure to feed might be caused by the recoil master guide rod assembly. When my Eagle 5.0 shows up I am sending the Tactical to Dawson to check out the feeding issues and an issue with the slide stop. I am REALLY new to all this and am just trying to soak up information and learn things, so thanks to everyone for their help and advice!

[Merlin Orr]

I know people that have used the recoil master and like them. I know people who have dumped the recoil master and now think they have a better running gun with a steel guide rod.

Could be an easy test for you. Put in a regular steel guide rod and see if the problem is cured or changed...?

Just another opinion...

[kgunz11]

I know people that have used the recoil master and like them. I know people who have dumped the recoil master and now think they have a better running gun with a steel guide rod.

Could be an easy test for you. Put in a regular steel guide rod and see if the problem is cured or changed...?

Just another opinion...

Would the guide rod from my Trojan 5.0 work?

[Merlin Orr]

I know people that have used the recoil master and like them. I know people who have dumped the recoil master and now think they have a better running gun with a steel guide rod.

Could be an easy test for you. Put in a regular steel guide rod and see if the problem is cured or changed...?

Just another opinion...

Would the guide rod from my Trojan 5.0 work?

It should.... Put it in and hand cycle and make sure it does not bind.. Then...let er rip..tator chip.

Something else to look at is your mags. A huge percentage of failure to feeds are mag related...

[kgunz11]

I know people that have used the recoil master and like them. I know people who have dumped the recoil master and now think they have a better running gun with a steel guide rod.

Could be an easy test for you. Put in a regular steel guide rod and see if the problem is cured or changed...?

Just another opinion...

Would the guide rod from my Trojan 5.0 work?

It should.... Put it in and hand cycle and make sure it does not bind.. Then...let er rip..tator chip.

Something else to look at is your mags. A huge percentage of failure to feeds are mag related...

Mags feed fine with the heavy RM spring, but bullets fall at my feet. With the light one I have a few FTF, so the mags work well with the heavier springs. I ordered Dawson base pads, Grams springs and followers today from Mike @ Shooters Connection. Great group of guys by the way, and a lot of help for a newb like myself. Plan on tuning the mags when the parts get here.

Please accept my apologies for the thread hijack

[HSMITH]

Before you shoot ANY gun with a new spring or a different spring in it, or a different guide rod and the old spring, check for coil bind. If you don't and the spring goes solid it WILL break something. Not IF, it WILL break something. Check for coil bind by assembling without the spring but with ALL the other components of the gun, take a pencil and make a mark across the slide and dust cover of the frame with the slide fully back. Reassemble with the spring in and pull the slide fully back, if the marks don't line up EXACTLY you have a problem. You will need to clip the spring ONE coil at a time until the marks line up. PLEASE take this advise to heart, it will be painful to your ego and expensive if you don't.

Schuemann barrels shoot great. You don't need the AET model to get a true match quality barrel either and I would recommend NOT getting the AET if you are going to shoot coated bullets, lead bullets, or plated bullets. The AET is a fantastic barrel, but it really needs a quality jacketed bullet to show its stuff. The standard Schuemann barrels will shoot the 'other than jacketed' bullets extremely well, better than anyone I know can shoot anyway. If you are only shooting quality jacketed bullets the AET is probably the barrel for you, it is fantastically accurate with good loads.

The feedramp profile of the AET is something you can't duplicate with any other barrel, not exactly anyway unless you weld up the ramp and reshape it. It feeds VERY well, but a standard barrel will to with a good throating and feed ramp adjustment by someone that knows what they are doing.

If your Kimber is a series II it has a poor slide to frame fit and a poor bushing fit, almost guaranteed. A good bushing fit well and things will get a ton better. Address the slide to frame fit and barrel fit, you will probably have a VERY accurate gun. If you want the utmost in accuracy have a premium barrel fit well after the slide to frame fit has been taken care of and you will be there.

I use Schuemann barrels when I can get them for two reasons, they shoot great and they save me labor time installing them. If something else was decidedly better I wouldn't use Schuemann, but that has not been the case. That said, ANY premium barrel will be markedly better than a production barrel IF the fit is on par with the quality of the barrel.

[kgunz11]

Before you shoot ANY gun with a new spring or a different spring in it, or a different guide rod and the old spring, check for coil bind. If you don't and the spring goes solid it WILL break something. Not IF, it WILL break something. Check for coil bind by assembling without the spring but with ALL the other components of the gun, take a pencil and make a mark across the slide and dust cover of the frame with the slide fully back. Reassemble with the spring in and pull the slide fully back, if the marks don't line up EXACTLY you have a problem. You will need to clip the spring ONE coil at a time until the marks line up. PLEASE take this advise to heart, it will be painful to your ego and expensive if you don't.

Thanks for the words of wisdom Sir. Don't think I'll be trying the swap. I'll just have Dawson set up a standard guide rod for it when I send it back to him.

[benny hill]

I alway's recut the ramps to my spec's along with the throats & chambers, then I know they are right.

[bulm540]

Ditto on the STI barrels. My Fat free has one and it is accurate.

[pskys2]

I think so. I've been told by three top-level gunsmiths that they prefer to use Schuemann's for a couple of reasons. One is that they all told me they require less time to fit than some of the other top barrels. Two is that they like the feed ramp profile that comes with the AET barrels. Three, with good bullets they tend to be incredibly accurate (they don't like plated bullets for the most part). That isn't to take anything away from Bar-Sto, KKM, KART, Wilson, Clark etc....they're all good barrels. Right now I have a KKM in my Open gun and a Bar-Sto in my old Open gun. I'm having a Schuemann put in my single stack when I get around to sending it to my smith and he'll be putting one in the new open gun we're cooking up as well. I did a poll on the best barrel manufacturer not long ago and Schuemann won by a pretty large margin. R,

Edit to add link:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...2&hl=barrel

Benny Hill put a Scheuman MG Barrel in my Limited .40 that I just got. It's not the AET, doesn't look like it has any flutes that I saw, but it does have the gain twist rifling (or the barrel is torqued in the last inch or two).

Wish I had paid attention to this post earlier. I kept wondering why 185 LRN Lasercast Bullets gave 1 hole groups at 25 y ds., and the Berry 180's I had were kind of squirlley. I broke down and got some MG 180 JHP (ordered them on a Friday and mentioned the Double Tap where I wanted to use them and they were delivered to Kansas on Monday! Heck I couldn't have drove up there and got'em any quicker) and lo and behold friggin' 1 hole groups at 25 yards. And not much bigger at 50 yards! Man I'm a happy hoser!

[G-ManBart]

I think so. I've been told by three top-level gunsmiths that they prefer to use Schuemann's for a couple of reasons. One is that they all told me they require less time to fit than some of the other top barrels. Two is that they like the feed ramp profile that comes with the AET barrels. Three, with good bullets they tend to be incredibly accurate (they don't like plated bullets for the most part). That isn't to take anything away from Bar-Sto, KKM, KART, Wilson, Clark etc....they're all good barrels. Right now I have a KKM in my Open gun and a Bar-Sto in my old Open gun. I'm having a Schuemann put in my single stack when I get around to sending it to my smith and he'll be putting one in the new open gun we're cooking up as well. I did a poll on the best barrel manufacturer not long ago and Schuemann won by a pretty large margin. R,

Edit to add link:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...2&hl=barrel

Benny Hill put a Scheuman MG Barrel in my Limited .40 that I just got. It's not the AET, doesn't look like it has any flutes that I saw, but it does have the gain twist rifling (or the barrel is torqued in the last inch or two).

Wish I had paid attention to this post earlier. I kept wondering why 185 LRN Lasercast Bullets gave 1 hole groups at 25 y ds., and the Berry 180's I had were kind of squirlley. I broke down and got some MG 180 JHP (ordered them on a Friday and mentioned the Double Tap where I wanted to use them and they were delivered to Kansas on Monday! Heck I couldn't have drove up there and got'em any quicker) and lo and behold friggin' 1 hole groups at 25 yards. And not much bigger at 50 yards! Man I'm a happy hoser!

Glad to hear it's a tackdriver! I've heard that they were making the AET barrels without the chamber flutes, but I haven't seen one to be sure. R,

[kgunz11]

I must say, I've never handled a Schuemann barrel but I am already impressed by them. I do own several custom rifle barrels and know what to expect in the quality of the barrel, but Mr. Schuemann took his time to write me a rather long reply to my question, and it was a very informative and educational reply. So much so I want to share it so others might learn from it as I have. Again, sorry for the hijack, but after receiving this email, I can comfortably say now that I believe Schuemann barrels ARE worth the money. The quality others swear by and the CS I have witnessed myself.

Hello Bobby,

Subject number 1: There are two philosophies regarding recoil springs.

The first has to do with physics and reliability. If the recoil spring

is too strong the ejected cases will be thrown forward. If the recoil

spring is too light the ejected cases will be thrown aft. When the

recoil spring is correct the cases will be ejected to the side of the

gun. This gives maximum ejection reliability. It also gives maximum

feeding reliability. If the recoil spring is too light the slide goes

fully aft, but the spring isn't strong enough to get the slide up to

speed before the slide engages the next round. The slow speed also

produces a prolonged feed cycle, that gives the cartridge maximum time

to tip down before it hits the feed ramp, which lowers the probability

of a successful feed. After the round contacts the ramp the spring is

too weak to reliably push the nose of the cartridge up the feed ramp and

into the chamber If the recoil spring is too strong the slide does not

go fully aft, and while the spring is strong, the slide travel before

the slide engages the next round in the magazine is too short to develop

the slide velocity needed for reliable feeding, so again the feeding

cycle is slow to start with, leading to a higher probability of the nose

of the cartridge tipping down, leading to a lower probability of a

successful feed. With the correct recoil spring the slide goes fully aft

and the spring is strong enough to get the slide up to full speed before

engaging the next round, and it is strong enough to push the nose of the

cartridge up the feed ramp and into the chamber. This give optimum

feeding reliability.

The second has to do with shootability. If the recoil spring is weak,

the feeding of the next round is weak, and the slide velocity as the gun

goes into battery is slow, so the gun muzzle doesn't tip down as the

slide stops in battery. Lots of shooters believe this improves shot to

shot time and accuracy, because they perceive gun motion is less between

shots. But, that is because the slide cycle is slowed considerably, and

the cycling forces are lower and spread out, but the gun doesn't get

back into battery until just before pulling the trigger for the next

shot. With the correct spring the cycle time is only 50 milliseconds so

the gun is back in battery a tenth of a second before the next shot. The

shooter's perception is the gun is jerking around more, but the truth is

the gun is back into battery quicker, and the reloading cycle is

reliable and consistent, so the shooter eventually learns, with

practice, to predictably put the second shot where the first shot went.

Using a lighter spring introduces a more variable reloading cycle,

because the reliability is lower, so the shooter's brain is never sure

exactly how the gun is going to be behaving prior to the following shot,

which leads to problems with predictable second shot placement.

Subject number 2:

Ramps vary in shape and angle. Standard accuracy barrels have a straight

feed ramp that is deliberately manufactured too steep because some

gunsmiths prefer a barrel with maximum case support. Other gunsmiths

prefer a shallower feed ramp angle to optimize feeding reliability. They

therefore recut the feed ramp, as supplied, to a shallower angle. The

AET barrels are supplied with an optimized feed ramp. It is curved to

preclude nose dive jams, and it is as shallow as possible to maximize

feeding reliability, while precluding blowing out a case even with an

abnormally high pressure load.

Initial conclusion:

My first guess is that you are suffering from a number of problems: (1)

your magazine springs are too strong (retards the rounds coming out of

the magazine because of excess friction); (2) the insides of the

magazine lips are not polished (retards the rounds coming out of the

magazine because of excess friction); (3) your feed ramp angle is too

steep (retards the rounds going up the ramp); and (4) your recoil spring

is too weak (not enough spring power to run the gun).

Wil Schuemann

[Paul Burtchell]

I think they are worth it. That is why my gun is with Benny Hill right now having one installed.

[38superman]

My AET Ultimatch II has a fluted chamber, gain twist riflling, and is coated with titanium nitride.

The coating gives it a gold color and its so hard and slick it feels like it has lubrication on it even when it's dry.

My best guess would be that it has somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000 rounds through it.

After all that use it still looks pristine, not a sign of even a burnish mark.

I don't know how much it added to the price of the gun but whatever it was, I have no problem with it.

Money well spent.

Tony

[pskys2]

I forgot all about the Gold Nitride. Benny why didn't you put one of them in my Blaster?

Oh, man I would'a liked some bling, bling!

Seriously, however Benny does his barrels is great. It's the 1st 1911/2011 pattern I've had that works from the get go.

Now if I can just control myself and not screw up a good thing.