SteveHarris Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I've been looking a new 1911 Limited 10 gun and I also shoot IDPA. As I understand, the use of a bushing is needed for IDPA. My question is what is the difference in accruacy with bushing vs non-bushing????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkbrd Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 To shoot CDP in IDPA you will need a gun with a bushing if you want to shoot a full size gun. There is no differance in accuracy between a bushing and non bushing gun, although a gun with a bushing is easyer to tighten up as it wears. The advantage of a bull barrel is it is heaver allowing faster followup shots due to lower recoil impulse, that is why most shooters are using full frame guns in limited, and many use tungsten guide rods. An adjustable sight single stack 1911 with a magwell added on will serve you well starting out in USPSA L10 and you can also use it in IDPA CDP. I have followed that path, and as many others now shoot an S-I in Limited, but still shoot my single stack 45 in CDP, although IPSC has pulled me away from IDPA for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 If both pistols are set up correctly, there is no difference in accuracy betewwn a bull barrel and a pistol with a bushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Just to open a can of worms... The Great One and I have always felt that our most accurate were, for some unexplainable reason, bushing guns. I know logically I can't back that up. I'll just say for me it's been a personal reality. Now I've had many cone barreled guns that shot real well, like 2.5" at 50, but the real tack-drivers, like 1.5" at 50, have all had bushing barrels. Go figure. And I can't say for certain on this, but I think I remember The Great One saying that was the (S.A.) Custom Shop's experience as well. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 The old saying, "Opinions and theories are like backsides.......... everybody's got one"........ here is my theory. I have also tried both bull/bushingless barrels and conventional/bushing barrels. I have without exception always come running back to the conventional bushing-type. I find that as the heavy bushingless barrel gets hotter, it tends to get less accurate (for ME). Here is my theory. The bushingless barrels are thicker walled in the front of the barrel than in the rear portion of the barrel. They TAPER, and the different areas of the barrel heat at different rates because of the varying mass at different areas of the barrel. Also, because the front area of the barrel is so thick AND tapered, the inner portion accumulates more heat more quickly than the outer portion of the barrel and tends to act like a bi-metal strip. The different areas of the barrel are expanding at different rates, causing a slight bending or torqueing. True the steel is a good conductor of heat, but there is an interim period that the heat is not evenly distributed, and this is when I believe the temporary warping is becoming a reality and accuracy suffers. I have discussed this with friends who are working engineers (not on trains ), and they feel that my theory has merit.......... or else they are just stroking me to shut me up !!!! Either way, that is what I think about the bushingless barrels and their sporatic accuracy. Jeffro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Jeffro, I truely spend too much time thinking aobut things that others have zero interest in. ...and I never thought of that (your theory). Pretty cool thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Jeffro,I truely spend too much time thinking aobut things that others have zero interest in. Flexmoney, That's WHY you MUST continue to spend the time thinking about these things that others have zero interest in............ If they have zero interest in them, then the burden of thinking of them falls squarely on YOU........ because SOMEONE has to think of them. If not, then where do "orphan" thoughts go that no one thinks of??????? Is there a cosmic "Home for Orphan Thoughts"? These are all very important questions that one must ponder if they are to move up the cosmic mountain of enlightenment. Have a good one, Buddy!!!!! Jeffro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I'm sure it is different strokes for different folks, but ... I am no engineer or metalurgist, but if there were a difference, it looks like the heavier one would not move around as much. Does a thin rifle barrel shoot better than a heavy one when they both get hot? No they don't, the heavy one does better...go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Does a thin rifle barrel shoot better than a heavy one when they both get hot? No they don't, the heavy one does better...go figure! Tightloop, I have considered that about the thin vs heavy rifle barrels. MOST rifles in the thin vs thick comparison are bolt action and don't get fired in such rapid succesion in such a short period of time as a competition 1911 usually does. Therefore I don't BELIEVE the heat build-up to be as great a potential factor............ Also harmonics play a large part in rifle barrels which makes "stiff", thicker barrels more stable; and is all but a mute point in pistol barrels because of the length differential.........but hell, what do I know. I could EASILY be DEAD WRONG I have been MANY TIMES!!!! Happy Trails and safe shootin', Jeffro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 A group of us switched from Bull barrels to Bushing Barrels in our .40 Limited guns shortly after the powerfactor was lowered to 165. One thing that we found (and it stumped us until we figured out the cause) is that the "thinnner" barrel in the bushing guns would chrono slower after hammering 30 or so rounds through them, where the Bull Barrels didn't seem to see such a radical velocity loss. -- Bucky. BTW: I've been to matches where you chrono immmediately after shooting a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 My understanding of physics is that the bushing barrel-with it's "uniform" thickness will expand in length and girth more "uniformly." Most likely this expansion will occur, somewhat, around the rifling, just generally increasing the size of the barrel by whatever factor-- this probably accounts for the velocity change you've noticed as the bullet does not fit as tightly in the barrel. As for the bull barrel, the expansion would be a lot less uniform. The muzzle end would expand less quickly than the chamber end because although the barrel is the same metal, it is "flash" heated rather than being slowly heated from ambient temperature to some higher temperature. My guess is that with the flash heating/expansion, the barrel begins to expand at the rear allowing the bullet to be "funneled" into the forward portion of the barrel, and, potentially, that the barrel also torques unevenly a bit, as suggested. It would definitely be interesting to see this tested within the confines of a lab and with all the right equipment. Ultimately, I don't think that it makes that much of a difference... but then again, I ain't no GM. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 What do the top notch shooters in the precision shooting sports where accuracy comes first (like BE shooters) use? I am thinking a bushing???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Ron, I am thinking a bushing? I'd say yes. Jeff, Nice theory - I buy it for now. In addition, I think a bushing barreled gun may potentially better control the barrel's position during its first 3 to 4 tenths of an inch of reward movement. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 In addition, I think a bushing barreled gun may potentially better control the barrel's position during its first 3 to 4 tenths of an inch of reward movement.be Brian, I tend to agree with your theory of increased barrel control in the early part of the recoil cycle. It seems some of the "hotshot" builders have started to realize that also. Notice in the last 8 months or so, that some of the builders of guns with the bull-barrels have started using a "plate" of +/- 1/8" flat steel brazed or welded to the very front of the bull-barrel, and machined it to perfectly match the contour of the face of the slide. This plate also "rests" or is secured to the front of the full-length guide rod, thereby giving support to the front of the barrel in that stage where the taper is so dramatic........ the first 3/8 to 1/2 inch of slide travel in recoil. Pretty sure Bill Wilson is doing that now, and I have seen a few others go that route. Probably to pick up that extra support to attempt to "neutralize" that play in the early stage of the recoil cycle. Still seems to me that the standard bushing/light barrel combination avoids that problem completely, so doesn't need a cure. Best, Jeffro (Jeff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now