Rufus The Bum Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 B.E. suggested I try Clays, I bought a lb and really want to try it. Any suggestions as to where I might start for building up a load for 230gn fmj and lead? Somewhere around 165-170pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protagonist Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Lee manual shows starting load of 4.5 gr. of Clays (I assume it's straight Clays) for 230 gr jacketed, but that may be hotter than you want. I have loaded 4.0 of straight Clays with 230 gr. JHP and it shoots nicely from my 5" Springfield. I haven't had time to chrono it yet but suspect it may be in range of 750 fps. The Lee manual shows 874 fps for its never exceed load of 4.7gr. Doesn't mention a barrel length. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2299 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I don't own a Lee manual but 4.5gr of Clays(plain) for a 230gr bullet seems awefully high to me. FWIW my major load is 4.0gr of Clays, 230gr Montana Gold CMJ, WLP, OAL 1.255, Crimp 0.469. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBeazlie Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I shot a lot of 230 gr LRN over 4.2 gr. Clays out of a Springfield and Kimber 45. Soft shooting and accurate. I don't think I would go any higher than this and believe 4.5 gr. may be a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 here is a load that a local GM sent me along with his chrono info. 3.6grs. Clays, 230 Laser-cast, WWLP, average velocity: 760, standard deviation: 12, power factor: 169.63. Hodgdons lists 4.0 of clays with a 230 grain hollow point making 732 fps which would just barely make major . You may be able to bump that up a tenth or 2 using a round nose as there will be less bullet in the case thus slightly lowering pressures but this is just a guess which I am sure someone here may know more about than I . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 I chrono'd some Clays today in 45 acp and came up with the following. 3.7 was about 162-168pf. 4.0 was about 168-174 and 4.2 was about 175. This was loaded to 1.25 OAL with 230gn lead. It was a "soft and snappy" load, softer than titegroup? maybe a little, definitely less smoke and alot cleaner. I think I can get too like this powder. I load with powder that is readily available. Titegroup and VV is not readily available, but Clays is. If you get the chance, check out Clays. My Hodgdons manual says 4.0 grns will give you 732fps with a 230 fmj/fp. That's right on the money. Thank you everyones info, it really helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Johnson Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Just bought a 550b from BE.com and loaded my first rounds earlier today. Used 4.0 grains of Clays with a 230 gr lrn. Had a blast today except for the snow while I tested the rounds. Is 3.7 grains of Clays enough of a cushion to make major for IPSC? What recoil spring weight do you use for 3.7 - 3.8 of Clays? 14? I've been using 16.5 wolf variable for 4.0. Sorry for the newb questions, Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 3.7 might be good for local matches because it's so close to 165, but I would load to 4.0 for a major match just to be on the safe side. I honestly couldn't tell any difference between 3.7 and 4.0 What did you think of Clays? I sure liked it. I'm running a 16lb ISMI recoil spring right now in a 5" National match barrel. Glad you like your Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I have been working up loads with Clays for west coast 230 grain FMJ-RN bullets. IMPORTANT to note: Clays reacts a lot to a small amount of change!! I would never recommend jumping around by more than a tenth at a time. For example - 3.9 grains in my gun yields a 164.5 power factor. 4.0 grains gave me a 169.7 power factor. Clays is a great powder but be extra careful with how you experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Here's what the Hodgdon website says: "NEVER Exceed the Loads Listed Here" 230 GR. HDY FMJ FP COL: 1.200" CLAYS 4.0 732 17,000 CUP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Johnson Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Quote: from Rufus The Bum on 12:05 am on Mar. 3, 2003 3.7 might be good for local matches because it's so close to 165, but I would load to 4.0 for a major match just to be on the safe side. I honestly couldn't tell any difference between 3.7 and 4.0 What did you think of Clays? I sure liked it. I'm running a 16lb ISMI recoil spring right now in a 5" National match barrel. Glad you like your Dillon. Cool, looks like i'll be able to use the same recoil spring that i have then. I've been ordering way to much stuff from brownells. I liked Clays, but then again i've only shot reloads with Clays and factory fmj. I don't perceive that much recoil. I wonder if Clays is a decent powder for 200 grain SWC? Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Quote: from JT Johnson on 9:24 pm on Mar. 4, 2003 Quote: from Rufus The Bum on 12:05 am on Mar. 3, 20033.7 might be good for local matches because it's so close to 165, but I would load to 4.0 for a major match just to be on the safe side. I honestly couldn't tell any difference between 3.7 and 4.0 What did you think of Clays? I sure liked it. I'm running a 16lb ISMI recoil spring right now in a 5" National match barrel. Glad you like your Dillon. Cool, looks like i'll be able to use the same recoil spring that i have then. I've been ordering way to much stuff from brownells. I liked Clays, but then again i've only shot reloads with Clays and factory fmj. I don't perceive that much recoil. I wonder if Clays is a decent powder for 200 grain SWC? Josh That's the load I'll be working on is the 200 lswc with clays. I was using 3.5 clays with a 250 rnfp which is the softest shooting .45 I've used yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 I'm going to shoot a match with Titegroup and another match the next day with Clays (same p/f) Because that's the big determining factor on whether or not it will really be a good powder. But it looks GREAT right now from what little playing around I've done with it. You can NEVER buy too much stuff from Brownells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Hi Rufus - I did the same thing. At the same velocity (around 165 PF - 200 grain Rns going about 830FPS) Clays and Titegroup "felt" the same outdoors. Tried them indoors and Titegroup made a lot more noise - makes a harsh "crack". Also, Titegroup was filthy in .45 compared to Clays. Thing is, Titegroup seems to run clean in high pressure calibers like .40SW. Clays, well its designed to burn clean at low shotgun pressures and burns clean in .45ACP. I found that Clays gets the nod. Tell us what you discover. Both powders are easily available and really cheap in bulk (compared to V V). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 The reason the TG was louder is that it is a ball powder. All ball powders indoors. They give off sound at a higher frequency. High frequency sounds reflect better of hard surfaces, which we pick up better than low frequency sounds. Low frequency sounds travel better through objects. Thats why you can only hear the base noises (drum) out of the low rider Jap Import POS that goes past or parks outside. The Clays is made is Australia and is a Flake type powder. It is bulkier than TG and other ball powders and is far more sensitive to moisture than ball, so you have to be more careful when you get close to top pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Johnson Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 <blockquote><hr><font size="1" face="verdana, helvetica">Quote: from JT Johnson on 9:24 pm on Mar. 4, 2003</font><blockquote><hr><font size="1" face="verdana, helvetica">Quote: from Rufus The Bum on 12:05 am on Mar. 3, 2003 3.7 might be good for local matches because it's so close to 165, but I would load to 4.0 for a major match just to be on the safe side. I honestly couldn't tell any difference between 3.7 and 4.0 What did you think of Clays? I sure liked it. I'm running a 16lb ISMI recoil spring right now in a 5" National match barrel. Glad you like your Dillon. </font><hr></blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana, helvetica"> Cool, looks like i'll be able to use the same recoil spring that i have then. I've been ordering way to much stuff from brownells. I liked Clays, but then again i've only shot reloads with Clays and factory fmj. I don't perceive that much recoil. I wonder if Clays is a decent powder for 200 grain SWC? Josh </font><hr></blockquote> That's the load I'll be working on is the 200 lswc with clays. I was using 3.5 clays with a 250 rnfp which is the softest shooting .45 I've used yet. How is the progress coming on those 200 grain SWC with Clays? Bought some SWC the other night and thinking 4.0 grains of Clays might be a good starting point? 3.8 grains for 230 gr lrn seem to shoot pretty well. Shot my compact with factory fmj the other day and think i'll stick with reloads from now on:) Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I use 3.9 and my shooting buddy uses 4, with 200gr SWC . Shoots soft and is completly reliable. I shoot enough to keep my Dillon working overtime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 How is the progress coming on those 200 grain SWC with Clays? Bought some SWC the other night and thinking 4.0 grains of Clays might be a good starting point?3.8 grains for 230 gr lrn seem to shoot pretty well. Shot my compact with factory fmj the other day and think i'll stick with reloads from now on:) Josh Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I haven't tried Clays and the 200 lswc yet, because I need to use up my 250 rnfp before I switch over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 I use 3.9 and my shooting buddy uses 4, with 200gr SWC . Shoots soft and is completly reliable. I shoot enough to keep my Dillon working overtime! Does that load make major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 I found this topic on Clays and the 200: Clays and 200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I've been shooting a 200-grain swc over 4.1 grains of clays loaded out to 1.25 for two years. Makes major in my pistol with some comfort room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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