OAL woes... Please help

[Z-man]

I've been having some strange problems that I can't figure out with my 1050. I've been reloading 9mm minor loads with 147gr. Precision Delta TC FMJ's. The problem is that with certain brass the bullet doesn't stay seated. While case gaging my rounds I have been pushing on the bullet to make sure its seated and the crimp is holding the bullet. With certain brass (ie. Federal and Speer) the bullet always drops into the case.

So... is this a problem with my reloader, crimp die, seating die, or is it a problem with my brass?? Winchester brass doesn't seem to have the problem, but almost every Speer case or Federal does. Could it be a bad batch of brass or what? I've never had the problem before, but all of a sudden it's struck. Any and all help is appreciated.

[HSMITH]

From what I have seen of the PD bullets they are at least half of your problem. Put a U-die in that rig and use consistent bullets, I would bet you have no problems after that. Pull the bullets that slip and mike them, I'd bet lunch you find the bullets are small and the case is right on.....

[RePete]

I use various brass brands but I crimp too 0.375", measured at the case mouth. I don't have tension nor feed problems.

[DougCarden]

I dont doubt Howard at all, but luckily I havent gotten any undersized bullets from PD.....yet..... . It sounds like the sizing die is not squeezing down the case good enough. NEVER crimp more to keep a bullet in the case. All that does is crush the bullet and your accuracy goes even farther down the Hell scale. If you apply too much crimp, it will acutally loosen the bullet as well......Pull a loaded round and look at the crease on the bullet. When your crimp is adjusted properly, you should be able to run your finger over a loaded round and it should be smooth at the case mouth. When you pull a bullet there should be an ever so faint line on the bullet as well, not an indention.

Hope this helps,

DougC

[Shay1911]

I am wondering if some of the bullets are fat and some are just normal size as opposed to some are small. You are probably setup for the fat ones.

[Carlos]

I dont doubt Howard at all, but luckily I havent gotten any undersized bullets from PD.....yet..... . It sounds like the sizing die is not squeezing down the case good enough. NEVER crimp more to keep a bullet in the case. All that does is crush the bullet and your accuracy goes even farther down the Hell scale. If you apply too much crimp, it will acutally loosen the bullet as well......Pull a loaded round and look at the crease on the bullet. When your crimp is adjusted properly, you should be able to run your finger over a loaded round and it should be smooth at the case mouth. When you pull a bullet there should be an ever so faint line on the bullet as well, not an indention.

Hope this helps,

DougC

I agree 100% w/ Doug. I bet you are using the Dillon resizing die. Please stop using that die and do not shoot any ammo you have loaded as you run a serious risk of having a bullet set back on you & blow up your gun.

Instead, buy an EGW brand "U" or undersize carbide die. You should be using case spray on all brass anyway (its right in Brian's video about the Dillon). Use Hornady One Shot with the new die. All should then be fine.

RE bullet dia.: the Montana Gold bullet - while very high quality, is also slightly smaller. It can happen. Make sure you order an EGW U die.

[LPatterson]

So... is this a problem with my reloader, crimp die, seating die, or is it a problem with my brass?? Winchester brass doesn't seem to have the problem, but almost every Speer case or Federal does. Could it be a bad batch of brass or what? I've never had the problem before, but all of a sudden it's struck. Any and all help is appreciated.

I would think that if you are having a problem with a brand of case then don't use it any more. I used to reload any brand of 9mm that I picked up until I started having problems then I isolated the problem brands and throw them away as part of the inspection phase after they are cleaned. I use several brands but they are always done in batches and some are for practice only and another for matches.

Guy goes to doctor. "Doc every time I bump my elbow, it hurts". Doc "Don't bump your elbow".

[lcs]

Get an EGW Undersize die. I use all kinds of mixed brass with 9 Major and do not crimp and my bullets do not set back or come loose and I load a lot longer than you do.

In addition, I have had oversize bullets from Precision Delta and they admitted it. I do not use PD bullets anymore. I use only Montana Gold and box to box they spec the same.

IMHO, if you run an EGW undersize die your problems will most likely dissappear. Your 9 rounds will look like little coke bottles. Kind of fat at the top and bottom and thinner in the middle.

[ChrisStock]

IMHO, if you run an EGW undersize die your problems will most likely dissappear. Your 9 rounds will look like little coke bottles. Kind of fat at the top and bottom and thinner in the middle.

While I do run the EGW U-die for my .40 loads to "un-glock" brass, I do not use it for my 9MM loads, I use the Dillon, and 90% of mine have that lovely coke bottle appearance. Interesting.

[lcs]

I do not use it for my 9MM loads, I use the Dillon, and 90% of mine have that lovely coke bottle appearance. Interesting.

Ah! see! I am at 99.999%

[Z-man]

Interesting... Thanks for all the ideas. I do think it might be something to do with PD bullets, since I wasn't having the problem with other stuff. I've got some Rainier Ballistics 147gr. that I'm going to load today and see if that might be it. I'll also be purchasing a EGW U die. I'll update and let you know what works. Thanks again.

[Z-man]

Update: I reloading 200 rounds using some Rainier Ballistics 147gr. HP's. I found a similar thing. All the WIN brass was just fine, 0 problems. About half the "FC" rounds wouldn't hold the bullet. And probably 25% of the Speer rounds had the same problem. I just ordered the EGW die, but I'm wondering if its really the Precision Delta bullets or whether I got a bad batch of Speer and FC brass?? It's a new problem, so kinda strange. Any further ideas?

[Alan550]

If you measure the case wall thickness on the brass, you'll probably discover that the Speer and Federal are thinner than the Win. So if your crimp was set up with the Winchester brass, it won't be as tight on the thinner brass.

Alan~^~

[HSMITH]

You need a U-die, not more crimp. This is especially true with plated bullets.

[yoshidaex]

I'm a bit skeptical about speer or federal cases being thinner than winchester. I've come across a few 9mm cases which were blown out near the base and they were all (total of 4, one of them is mine) win marked brass.

HUGE +10000000 on the EGW "U" die.

Edited December 25, 2007 by yoshidaex

[G-ManBart]

You need a U-die, not more crimp. This is especially true with plated bullets.

Yep...the U-die is the way to go.

Since it happened with two different kinds of bullets and only with the Speer and Fed cases in both instances, it doesn't sound like bullet size is the problem.

I primarily load Zero and MG bullets but have shot at least 10K of PD 180s in the past year and they've all been right on spec (three or four different batches). The interesting thing is that MG 180s are a little bit undersized in comparison to Zeros and PDs and I saw some setback (around .005-.008) if I wasn't using a U-die with them.

[TrueDoubleTaper]

Are you certain you have the proper powder drop funnel installed?

[G-ManBart]

I'm a bit skeptical about speer or federal cases being thinner than winchester. I've come across a few 9mm cases which were blown out near the base and they were all (total of 4, one of them is mine) win marked brass.

HUGE +10000000 on the EGW "U" die.

Without cutting the cases down near the base it's hard to be sure about the wall thickness of various brands. I just measured some once-fired .40 Win and Starline and they were both between .100 and .110 at the mouth. I get all the once-fired Win .40 that I want and have shot some of them at least ten times (practice bin) and all I've had were two cases split at the mouth slightly. I use the Starline brass for match ammo, but when that's used up it'll be all Win....once-fired for matches and then it goes into the practice bin.

[Z-man]

UPDATE:

I just replaced my sizing die with the EGW "U" die. Lets just say that the OAL problem has been solved. Every single round I reloaded (I only did 100 b/c of time) case gauged perfectly. I used to have several that wouldn't make it in addition to the above discussed OAL problem. The only thing I noticed was that the EGW requires a much harder stroke on the 1050. That's probably because it's new. Approximately how far down the case do you guys run your "U" die??

The other thing I noticed was that I might have to readjust my powder funnel to open the case mouth more. With the U die it seemed like I had to really place the bullet perfectly at the seating station or else I'd jam up the bullet nose.

[wide45]

Approximately how far down the case do you guys run your "U" die??

As far as you can.

I set mine to just touch the shellholder, or shellplate with all stations full.

A small amount of Hornady One Shot case lube will reduce the sizing effort, it does not take much.

[ledavatar]

I've had the same problem of bullets dropping down into the case using WIN cases in 9mm. I measured the inside diameter of those cases and they were .358. No wonder my .355 bullets were falling in. I was using Hornday TMJs that actually measure .354, exacerbating the problem. The solution I found was put either no bell or very very very little bell on the case mouth. I haven't had a problem w/ bullets dropping in ever since. I use a Lee factory crimp die on it and have had no bullet setback problems - the loaded rounds pass the table push test (I push the bullet nose first into a table as hard as I can) with no set back.

[DougCarden]

If you are using U dies or Lee dies on the progressives, like I do....I strongly recommend you use Dillon case lube, or at the very least, One Shot. It will save wear and tear on the machine, and more importantly, you! I was reminded of this when I made up a small batch of .40s yesterday with no case lube. Yikes.....

DougC

[DougCarden]

If you are using U dies or Lee dies on the progressives, like I do....I strongly recommend you use Dillon case lube, or at the very least, One Shot. It will save wear and tear on the machine, and more importantly, you! I was reminded of this when I made up a small batch of .40s yesterday with no case lube. Yikes.....

DougC